herman Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Greetings all! Ater months of waiting, my KT 250 project is about to get under way! I'm starting with 2 semi complete bikes that I'm certain will be enough for 1 rider. As the bike is going to be ridden, I'm planning on rattle can painting the tank (unless I get my powder coat setup done), as well as painting the frame to match the tank. I saw a great photo of one on this site that featured a lay down suspension setup for the rear. A buddy of mine can do this, so my question would be where to locate the upper mount and how much gusseting? I'm thinking about positioning the mount so that the stock length shock will be appx. a half an inch longer thinking tis will help the bike turn sharper. Suggestions Also, where can I get a flywheel weight for this bike? I had a weight on my RL and loved it... even have the plans to make one for the Suzook.. ANy other mods you chaps might suggest? Thanks, Herman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Personally, I wouldn't go to the additional work of moving the rear shocks. To get any real benefit from that you may have to reposition other things such as the swingarm pivot etc, as on the Yamaha Majesty - it wasn't just a case of angling the rear shocks on those, the whole rear subframe including the pivot point was moved upwards. I find that with a good set of shocks, well set up, the rear of the KT works pretty well. I get a lot of feel from the rear suspension and it absorbs impacts quite well. Not sure that just angling the shocks would make much difference. It is certainly effective enough for anything found in most classic events over here and copes well whenever I ride it on the B route in modern trials. It grips pretty well in mud too. On mine I extended the the shock length by about 1" to help quicken the steering as it is a little slow. It has enough lock to steer around any section but I find that up rocky gullies, if it gets off line it isn't easy to quickly pull it back on line again, as it is with an Ossa or a later Bulto. I'd compare the steering to a model 49 or 80 Bultaco. The longer shocks don't make a huge difference but every little helps. The motor really surprised me, it is pretty torquey, much better than a TY and it will pull 2nd and 3rd gear in sections. It revs its balls off if needed. It has a flywheel weight fitted but still feels as though it could do with more. If I hadn't looked I wouldn't have thought it had one. Personal preference as to how much weight I guess. The clutch works well, I was going to extend the clutch arm slightly as there isn't much room but I've since got a KX cover to try. The brakes are brilliant for a 70s drum set up and I can clutch/brake it with little effort, it is very stable as it doesn't take much effort. I use genuine KT shoes and clutch plates. The biggest let down is the front fork action. Typically 70s Jap set up, too soft on spring and damping if your over about 12 stones (170 pounds) I have fitted a pair of uprated springs from Fred in New Zealand and they work well. Getting the damping close to right is difficult and I'm using SAE20 oil I think but they will still top out. The damping rate is wrong really and set up ends up being a compromise of one sort or another. The KT is definitely behind the Spanish bikes of the era but not as bad as it is made out to be, in my opnion that is. Lose some weight from the frame, the engine is light enough, sort the steering and front suspension and they would have had a dramatic improvement which would have put them closer to the Spanish bikes. It wouldn't have taken too much to have got it close and it is a shame they didn't continue with it - especially when you see what they did with the works 330. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htrdoug Posted September 14, 2009 Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Greetings all! Ater months of waiting, my KT 250 project is about to get under way! I'm starting with 2 semi complete bikes that I'm certain will be enough for 1 rider. As the bike is going to be ridden, I'm planning on rattle can painting the tank (unless I get my powder coat setup done), as well as painting the frame to match the tank. I saw a great photo of one on this site that featured a lay down suspension setup for the rear. A buddy of mine can do this, so my question would be where to locate the upper mount and how much gusseting? I'm thinking about positioning the mount so that the stock length shock will be appx. a half an inch longer thinking tis will help the bike turn sharper. Suggestions Also, where can I get a flywheel weight for this bike? I had a weight on my RL and loved it... even have the plans to make one for the Suzook.. ANy other mods you chaps might suggest? Thanks, Herman Team Oolitic? As in So.Indiana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herman Posted September 14, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 14, 2009 Team Oolitic... you got it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htrdoug Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 (edited) Do you ride behind Stalker Elementary school? I'm working on building some trials sections at a co-workers of mine's property just west of Bloomington.We'll have a bit of everything when I'm done. Are you going to come over to Stoney Lonesome next weekend?I'll be on the old red Fantic 240,my first Trials event.They've talked me into entering it BTW,protocol requires that you pop intoIntroduce Yourself and post up a quick note about yerself Just ta be friendly like,yaknow Edited September 15, 2009 by htrdoug Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsmm Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I remember the hot setup was to shorten the swing arm 1 inch. Cut it near the front pivot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herman Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 Do you ride behind Stalker Elementary school?I'm working on building some trials sections at a co-workers of mine's property just west of Bloomington.We'll have a bit of everything when I'm done. Are you going to come over to Stoney Lonesome next weekend?I'll be on the old red Fantic 240,my first Trials event.They've talked me into entering it BTW,protocol requires that you pop intoIntroduce Yourself and post up a quick note about yerself Just ta be friendly like,yaknow Introduction? Why Dougie old boy... you already know me. You bought my Maico last year! As far as Stoney goes, All I have is my son't anemic TL125, but I may drag it out and attend. I rode the event last year on my Sherpa and had to retire ealry with a DNF. I'd attended the meet annually and always enjoyed it, although it was pretty rugged on an old bike. last year, however, the trialsmaster set up a pretty tough course with limited lines and I really struggled. It just wasn't as fun as it used to be. I realize the event is for modern bikes, but it sure is harder for old bikes and novices. I've noticed an dwindling number of riders over the last few years, too. Not everyone is an advanced rider.....Just my 2 cents. Anyway, are you planning to ride both days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
herman Posted September 15, 2009 Author Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 I remember the hot setup was to shorten the swing arm 1 inch. Cut it near the front pivot. I have an extra swingarm as well as a new mig welder! I'll give it a try and see what kind of welder I am after many years... The long shocks are a good idea. I really appreciate the advice, too. Forgive me for pestering Doug. I met him last year and he really bailed me out by buying my Maico when I was strapped for cash during my house purchase. He's good people. I reckon I'll have to ride that wheey TL 125 this weekend... can't let the old boy ride his first meet alone, can I? At the least I can be his minder. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_r Posted September 15, 2009 Report Share Posted September 15, 2009 My 2 cents on setting up a KT to ride well: 1. Get 360mm long shocks on it 2. Extend footpeg mounts down 20mm 3. Install bar adapters that move the bars an inch forwards Roxspeed Bar Risers This is my bike, and now has these mods and it rides like a dream. Cheers, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htrdoug Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 I have an extra swingarm as well as a new mig welder! I'll give it a try and see what kind of welder I am after many years... The long shocks are a good idea. I really appreciate the advice, too. Forgive me for pestering Doug. I met him last year and he really bailed me out by buying my Maico when I was strapped for cash during my house purchase. He's good people. I reckon I'll have to ride that wheey TL 125 this weekend... can't let the old boy ride his first meet alone, can I? At the least I can be his minder. Sold all My Maico stuff earlier this year and bought a KTM 640 LC4 dualsport,great bike that I'm really enjoying.Been messing with this old Fantic 240,looks like hell but everything seems to work ok,might give it a cosmetic workover this winter,but I'm enjoying riding it as it is. I won't be trying anything over at Stoney that'll put my ass at risk,just want to see how it goes. If I was you I'd just put the KT together and ride it as it is...make everything work smoothly,use the recommended fork oil weight,rattle can paint job is doubleplus good idea! I could really use a trials riding buddy,all my friends are Hare Scramblers...If you are free tomorrow night why don't you come on over and check out the property in Stanford,I'm not bringing my bike,just the brushcutter and chainsaw.Need to open the sections instead of riding around on the bike!I'm laying out everything to suit vintage bikes right now but there's plenty of variety there for future challenges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 My 2 cents on setting up a KT to ride well:1. Get 360mm long shocks on it 2. Extend footpeg mounts down 20mm 3. Install bar adapters that move the bars an inch forwards Roxspeed Bar Risers This is my bike, and now has these mods and it rides like a dream. Cheers, Ben Beautiful bike Ben. I never liked the black frame and will do mine silver/grey or white when it gets a rebuild. Makes the whole bike look lighter. I've done the same mods to mine apart from bar position is standard and I have Fred's uprated fork springs. Rides pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben_r Posted September 16, 2009 Report Share Posted September 16, 2009 Beautiful bike Ben. I never liked the black frame and will do mine silver/grey or white when it gets a rebuild. Makes the whole bike look lighter. I've done the same mods to mine apart from bar position is standard and I have Fred's uprated fork springs. Rides pretty well. Thanks Woody, I forgot to mention I am running those springs as well. As also used TY fork caps to remove the std "puffers". Fred really is a good source isn't he? This bike runs his fork springs, fibreglass sidecovers, sidecover decals, fuel cap, full engine gasket and seal kit, airfilter, exhaust rubber and a few misc springs. Also, I have installed an OKO 26mm flatslide which I have nearly got sorted. Trying a new needle soon which should get it real close. Such a great addition to the bike. Cheers, Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kt250guy Posted October 3, 2009 Report Share Posted October 3, 2009 I have to ask, why does everybody complain about and alter the forks on the KT? the forks are the bread and butter of the bike, allow me to elaborate the forks are what makes the KT turn so tight because if you slightly tap the front brake the nose slowly lowers which changes the perceived rake which makes it turn tighter and when you apply power and return to the regular riding position the rake returns to normal this also works on really steep hills because if the front end is lower it wont loop out, so you see it is like a variable geometry frame. I personally think the KT frame is nearly optimal the way it is iv put 1/2 inch longer shocks on mine. although my most important word of advise is if the frame remains rigid as it was stock when you are done with it use IRC tyres, they have really soft side walls, they are so soft that they only work well on bikes with stiff frames, dunlops work well too but IRC's are the best on my bike. these ideas work for me on my clubs expert line and may not for you so dont hold me accountable if they don't work for you, good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 5, 2009 Report Share Posted October 5, 2009 I have to ask, why does everybody complain about and alter the forks on the KT? the forks are the bread and butter of the bike, allow me to elaborate the forks are what makes the KT turn so tight because if you slightly tap the front brake the nose slowly lowers which changes the perceived rake which makes it turn tighter and when you apply power and return to the regular riding position the rake returns to normal You're kidding right? How is this any different from any other bike? The problem with the KT forks is that they are too soft in damping and spring rate which doesn't help when tackling long rocky sections at speed, the front end is difficult to control. The rake on the steering also makes it hard to bring the bike back on line quickly as the steering is slow. Turning tight on the KT isn't really an issue, it will turn tight ok, it is the speed that the steering responds that is a disadvantage against some other bikes. I have no idea about the rigidity of the frame but it is way over engineered and too heavy. The rear engine mount alone is overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted October 6, 2009 Report Share Posted October 6, 2009 I took it that he meant that when people fit stiffer forks springs to their KT to make the suspension work better, it makes the steering slower than with the standard woeful springs because the front doesn't compress as much. Doesn't mean I agree with him, just what I thought he was trying to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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