mickwren Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 (edited) The latest installment of the No Stop/Dynamic saga sees Sammy Miller writing in TMX. Sammy was British Champion for 11 consecutive years, he won over 1100 trials, he didn't believe in being second, he was dominant in British Trials for roughly 2 decades yet in the fairy tale world that is No Stop Land we are expected to believe that roughly 80 % of the 150 riders who turned up at events actually had a good chance of beating Sammy. I don't think so. Yet again we get the fairy tale that the Scottish and the Scott are only good because they are no stop. This is almost like expecting us to believe that if you are riding round some sh*tty ex brick works at a wednesday night trial, under no stop you can imagine that you are in a beautiful Scottish Glen. The best one yet is that if you buy yourself some bats and a ball or two you can actually turn up and play golf with Tiger Woods, or tennis with Roger Fedderer! I don't think so. Actually Trials is one of the very few sports where you CAN compete in the same event as a World Champion, just because you're not good enough doesn't mean you can't. As I keep saying, go No Stop by all means but only if it best for our sport, not because it always used to be !!! Edited October 10, 2009 by mickwren Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Its true we all rode in the same events AND we all rode the same sections AND we rode 40 different sections AND we had some nice going between sections AND we could be in the pub or going home at a sensible time AND many of us didn't care about competing against Sammy. That was then and this is now I have no axe to grind regarding riding in stop & hop trials if thats what folk want ..everything in moderation! however I certtainly won't observe them because every decision is subjective and everybody involved thinks he or she is right, which to me is a recipe for an unhappy day out. Ther are many things which contribute to the wellbeing and future of our sport, some of which appear to have already been given up on by our representative body. I believe that commercial showcasing of trials products and other sponsors is fine but anyone who thinks it is the way foreward is either a fool or in the business. The debate has always been about whats best for our sport, the debate rages because we are all passionate about it. Stop or no stop is really a bit of a red herring we should be concentrating on having places and sensible insurances to allow us to continue to do our sport even if all we can manage is a bit of waste ground here and there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wri5hty Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 The best will always be the best regardless of what rules you run under. there is a HUGE difference in ability between riders at all levels now and i really cant see how rule changes are going to make that much of a difference. obviously this is just my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 Hasn't this been discussed in great length on another post, or am I missing something Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdmc Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I keep hearing that the SSDT is over subscribed due to the rules changing to NO STOP. At the same time this change came in I believe there were a couple of other changes which had a great impact on the entry numbers: 1 You could put down the name of the person(s) who you wanted to ride with. If you both were lucky to get through the draw you could ride round with your mate(s) 2 If you had mechanical failure you could continue riding the event on a NO award basis These 2 changes made a greater impact then the NO stop rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizza5 Posted October 10, 2009 Report Share Posted October 10, 2009 I keep hearing that the SSDT is over subscribed due to the rules changing to NO STOP.At the same time this change came in I believe there were a couple of other changes which had a great impact on the entry numbers: 1 You could put down the name of the person(s) who you wanted to ride with. If you both were lucky to get through the draw you could ride round with your mate(s) 2 If you had mechanical failure you could continue riding the event on a NO award basis These 2 changes made a greater impact then the NO stop rule Sorry but you are wrong the severity of the setions were getting silly and changing the rules brought it back to the majoritory of the entry....Fact! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bilc0 Posted October 11, 2009 Report Share Posted October 11, 2009 Think we are all getting excited over nothing,i've heard stop will be allowed if needed,i guess that's so the rider can adjust he's line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatabeta Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 1: Here here to what Mick Wren wrote. BANG ON the money there. The glory days of the 60's, flat caps and wellies will not return if you make bikes heavier (dear god why would we) and use narrow tyres (again - why?) 2: Isn't the Scottish over subscribed every year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 The SSDT was in real danger of collapsing in mid 90s due to lack of riders due to section severity with stop and hop. In '97 they went no-stop and had a very healthy entry. Entries rose in 98 and 99 until 2000 came along and everyone wanted to ride due to it being the year milenium year. They were overscribed so there was a ballott. That year also had extremely good weather with endless sunshine and that was it - oversubscribed ever since. So yes, it was no-stop rules that rejuvinated the SSDT, no question. Whether it will cure whatever the problems are at WTC is another matter, one that doesn't concern me or most of the people I know. In the UK I still think clubs should be given the choice to run under whatever rules they wish due to the present day spread of machines and the age and abilities of riders taking part. Riders or observers don't need a degree in physics to understand the difference between stop and no-stop rules. Being able to read (the regs) is a definite advantage though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsnutterman Posted October 12, 2009 Report Share Posted October 12, 2009 Actually Trials is one of the very few sports where you CAN compete in the same event as a World Champion, just because you're not good enough doesn't mean you can't. And the 2 main trials that you can compete against Dougie are run under the no stop rule, surprise surprise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) And the 2 main trials that you can compete against Dougie are run under the no stop rule, surprise surprise. My Son has completed on the same course as Dougie as did a number of Yorkshire riders. That was TSR22A. As I have stated any rules work so long as the clerk of the course sets the course correctly and has a mind for the standard of rider they are catering the Trial for. The problem with attracting riders like Dougie is that some CoC's set the course for them and forget the other riders. The Scott and SSDT seem to have been obsessed with continuing to attract "World Championship" Riders forgetting that for a multi day event they just cannot run with 10 to 15 riders on the course. They need big numbers to run a multi day trial. They could have just "backed off" the sections with a few "nasty" ones to sort out the winners, however "changing" to "No-Stop" means that riders perceive a change has been made. Wh Edited October 14, 2009 by Telecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
highland lassie Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 The Scott and SSDT seem to have been obsessed with continuing to attract "World Championship" Riders forgetting that for a multi day event they just cannot run with 10 to 15 riders on the course. They need big numbers to run a multi day trial. That's amused me no end - makes a change from the accusations of favouritism from the hundreds that don't get an SSDT entry, and the complaints about the SSDT not attracting all the top riders!! Have you been to the SSDT in the last fifteen years?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsnutterman Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 My Son has completed on the same course as Dougie as did a number of Yorkshire riders. That was TSR22A. I guess that was the Bradford Boxing day trial, if so your son must be pretty handy as there are very few riders who can do that trial on the hard route, you certainly couldn't get 200 plus capable of riding it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 That's amused me no end - makes a change from the accusations of favouritism from the hundreds that don't get an SSDT entry, and the complaints about the SSDT not attracting all the top riders!! Have you been to the SSDT in the last fifteen years?! I was refering back to the time when the SSDT complained they didn't get enough riders because of the "Stop" rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 I guess that was the Bradford Boxing day trial, if so your son must be pretty handy as there are very few riders who can do that trial on the hard route, you certainly couldn't get 200 plus capable of riding it. I think He was the first Youth B rider to attempt the Hard course. He finished the course in the time limit even if he was last. He has entered every year since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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