bogwheel Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Just wondering what the preferred shock length for a M199 is please? I currently have 340mm and i am looking at new Hagon shocks (1 - cost $150 cheaper than Falcons and 2 - the guy that did my suspension on my EC300 gasser says they are good value) The hagons only come in 340 or 370mm centres. Is 370mm to tall and would it make the front too quick? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovita Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 I have a 199A and am faced with the same decision. Hopefully we can get some good input here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Original shocks for all 198 and 199 models where 340 mm. long. Aniway Hagon shocks are quite good, but maybe not the proper shocks for trials. Falcons, RockShocks, Betor UK, Magicals, NJB.... there are a few ones more specific for trials, but unfortunately not cheap. If you like them very soft I recommend you 10 or 20 mm. more length. In any other case go to the 340 mm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Standard shock length for all the Sherpas is 340mm. As for which make, look around at all the events you go to and see how many trials bikes are fitted with Hagons. I have never seen one. I'm not knocking Hagon as a brand but for trials there is no history of riders using them here, therefore no rider feedback on which to develop the shock into a leading brand. They're considered a budget shock if you're not too serious about your riding. The favoured shocks are Falcon, Rockshock, NJB, Betor (nothing intended in the order I've listed them) The Betors are probably the best to go for if you want a cheaper shock that works reasonably well - assuming they still do the cheap version. The new versions are more than Falcons. Falcons work very well but they can be prone to leaking. Rockshocks are improving in their set up, the quality of the shock itself has never been an issue. There are other shocks from Spain that are very good but you'll pay a heavy price. Ultimately, depends on how serious you are. A length of 370mm is too long, it will really upset the bike. I have 10mm longer on my 199b and it just quickens the steering a little, but enough, without upsetting the handling. They're Falcons with superlight damping and 60lbs springs and the back end works really well. Back end of a Sherpa normally feels pretty dead or wooden, but this set up gives loads of feedback. Obviously it's the shocks themselves, not the extra 10mm in that respect. I've also modded the front forks with a longer spring in one leg, standard in the other, no spacers (springs as sold by Bultaco UK - I found fitting both gave too much preload, for me) It also has Ossa damper rods as I've never thought the Bulto forks worked particularly well, damping is too soft. They have 200cc of 10W oil. I have blocked off the air vents in the fork tops so they don't spew oil in my face every time the forks depress (I'm just about to fit valved tops) and this also adds a bit of preload. They work really well now. Note though, I am around 240lbs so it won't suit everyone's tast/style. Might as well add that I also have a 250 ignition flywheel fitted, electronic ignition and an OKO 28mm carb. It pulls like a train. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabdab Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Woody Can you provide the jetting specs on the OKO-Main,pilot jet,slide #, needle number, needle position, needle jet . Any other changes eg removal of air jet, different starting jet etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulmac Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Hey Bogwheel Toby Coleman rode my 198b to win the Aussie Twin Shock this year - it's fitted with 355mm Falcons (an extra 15mm) and he found it spot on. Paul Mac Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 13, 2009 Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Didn't mean to steer Bogwheel's thread into a carb thread - OKO is out of the box apart from smaller pilot, 36 maybe, can't remember. I've no idea where the air jet is so if one is fitted it's still there. Ditto the starting jet. I have to clean the carb in the next day or two for this weekend's trial so I'll check the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogwheel Posted October 13, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2009 Thanks for all your replies So the stories of leaky Falcons is not as bad as it sounds? No Betors here (Aus) at present and they are not the cheap ones. Hey Woody - whats with the different length fork springs please - mine are like that (approx 15mm dif), and i was just about to replace them because i thought one had crapped out. Does anyone know the correct length of fork springs also please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 The aftermarket springs sold by Bultaco UK are longer than standard by about 1 - 1.5 inches as an estimate as that is how far the stick out of the top of the fork tubes - as per Pursang length probably, but I think they are not the same rate as a Pursang. It's difficult to say what the correct length Sherpa spring is as there is no way of knowing whether these changed from model to model. Generally they sit about flush with the top of the forks. When I fitted the new springs as a pair I found they gave too much preload for me so I just run one new, one old and it's just about right for me. Whether your falcons leak is down to luck I think - I have several pairs and most have developed a leak after a period of time and often that period has been months not years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted October 14, 2009 Report Share Posted October 14, 2009 (edited) Bogwheel be careful here because your SM frame may be different to a M199 frame regarding the rear suspension geometry. There are plenty of Betors in use here. You may not have recognised them as such though because they are "very similar" looking to Falcons. I have a set on my 348 with 60 lb springs and they are OK on that bike. If you want to try them, I can get them brought to the Conondale trial. David Edited October 14, 2009 by feetupfun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted October 15, 2009 Report Share Posted October 15, 2009 Woody Can you provide the jetting specs on the OKO-Main,pilot jet,slide #, needle number, needle position, needle jet . Any other changes eg removal of air jet, different starting jet etc Not much joy with these I'm afraid. No number on the slide or needle jet Pilot I changed to a 34 Needle is standard, I think 6KL - it's faint Needle position on middle clip Main is standard 112 If there are other jets in the carb I can't see them. This is the type with the tube attached on the top of the inlet stub. No idea what it's for, I blanked it off. Bike runs fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedronicman Posted October 17, 2009 Report Share Posted October 17, 2009 (edited) Just so not to confuse people- the std shock length as stated of 340mm is the measurement from the centre of the bushes ,not the total length of the shock itself. All shocks are measured like this. Edited October 17, 2009 by pedronicman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogwheel Posted October 23, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 23, 2009 Thanks for the offer David - i have just lashed out on a pair of YSS's @ 355mm Touch wood thier as good as some are saying. just wasn't comfortable with all the leaking Falcon stories. Wanted to get a pair of NJB's from the US, (good value at present) but after 3 emails - still no replies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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