oxymoronic Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 Hi folks, I've not this bike long and its my first modern (mono shock at least) trails bike. I've replaced lot of service bits on it already just so I know everything is in good shape. However, I've changed the oil in it several times now over the last few weeks and the magnetic sump plug is picking up metal fragments (so must be iron). They're little, sharp slivers rather than chunks- either way I'm not sure what is causing it. There is also a silvery film to the oil drained which looks like it could be aluminium. The gear box seems ok and I can get through all 6 gears without problem. Sometimes getting neutral is a bit tricky, especially when cold, but I think this has more to do with the rider than the bike. I thought it maybe related to the kick start mechanism as it has slipped on the odd occasion but after whipping the clutch cover off I can't see any evidence of it being in that area - although I haven't removed the clutch to see everything going on. I'm toying with idea of stripping down the whole motor and rebuilding to try cure the problem unless anyone can suggest anything less drastic? If a rebuild is the answer, are there any guides/tips and specific gasket/bearing kits I should order from Gas Gas? Cheers Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 The magnetic sump plug on any Rotax motor I've had has always had metal filings on it at oil change. If you rub the fillings between your fingers and cant really feel anything but paste I wouldnt worry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the addict Posted November 8, 2009 Report Share Posted November 8, 2009 As above, the magnetic plugs always collect this, its what its for, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 As above, the magnetic plugs always collect this, its what its for, I agree. The fine particles are a normal wear indicator (mostly from trans and primary gear teeth). I would, however, be a little suspect of the silver color in the trans oil (depending on how much aluminum is in the oil) as that would possibly be something wearing off the particles from the cases or clutch, which is not usually normal. You might want to look underneath the clutch, idler gear etc. just to be sure. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxymoronic Posted November 9, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I guess having the magnetic sump plug there then this make sense, but I'm not collecting a fine paste though. I should have taken a photo really, but I would say its more like the swarf you would get from drilling with a poorly sharpend drill bit. They're quite sharp, the first time I noticed I managed to get some bits stuck in my thumb! Perhaps I'm being over cautious with it but I'm slightly dubious about the machine as I don't think it has been quite as well maintained as the chap made out - the first time I changed the oil what came out can only be described as muddy water. Out of curiousity, what type of oil are people putting in the gear box? I've tried a couple so far, 1 being Halfords 2 stroke geal oil and that was rubbish and expensive - made the clutch drag and the other is ATF dexron III which is a lot cheaper and the bike seems happier with it. Thanks for advice folks, greatly appreciated. Any more tips will be welcomed. Sam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 That sounds like a problem as it should be like a course toothpaste in feel. My Pro had some bits in it which i stripped and found a bearing failure, to which damaged an idle gear and numberous bearings. Dont use it as it will and up costing loads as i stopped my bike asap and it still cost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 I guess having the magnetic sump plug there then this make sense, but I'm not collecting a fine paste though. I should have taken a photo really, but I would say its more like the swarf you would get from drilling with a poorly sharpend drill bit. They're quite sharp, the first time I noticed I managed to get some bits stuck in my thumb!Perhaps I'm being over cautious with it but I'm slightly dubious about the machine as I don't think it has been quite as well maintained as the chap made out - the first time I changed the oil what came out can only be described as muddy water. Out of curiousity, what type of oil are people putting in the gear box? I've tried a couple so far, 1 being Halfords 2 stroke geal oil and that was rubbish and expensive - made the clutch drag and the other is ATF dexron III which is a lot cheaper and the bike seems happier with it. Thanks for advice folks, greatly appreciated. Any more tips will be welcomed. Sam What you describe, Sam, sounds serious. I wouldn't run it until you find the source of the swarf. You might consider a complete engine teardown as that type of material can cause internal damage to other parts in addition to the problem part. Dexron III ATF works well in your engine. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzralphy Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Just a thought here.... if the metal parts are not sticking to the magnet then the metal is aluminium. Likely, i'd say, from the clutch basket - look for indents where the clutch plates sit/slide of warn friction plate 'teeth'. Agreed .... ATF in a Beta is good. Replace it often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffers Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Those fragments you discribe in your oil will be the case/hardening on one of the bearings flakeing off, you can talk about it for ever but without a strip down it is all guesswork and if you keep running it, the damage will only increase, strip it down and wash and dry all parts so they can be inspected, replace all the bearings even if they look ok , because you will not know how long they will last, if 1 bearing has failed i bet the others wont be long before they do. Allso check the surfaces of the gears for flakeing, (it may have had water or poor oil in the transmission at some time) Do the job once , fill with good quality oil and go and enjoy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxymoronic Posted November 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 Well, I've taken the whole clutch off and the kick start assembly and it would seem that the kick start pawl may be the cause of the swarf: Pawl 1: Pawl 2: Pawl 3: Gear: What do people think? The pawl teeth are very burred and sharp. I'm tempted to replace the pawl, the gear and the springs, put it all back together with a new gasket and see how it goes. If there was noise or the gear box was clunky I wouldn't mess about, I'd strip it but I'd rather be riding it instead of having it in bits everywhere until I can find some time to sort it out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted November 11, 2009 Report Share Posted November 11, 2009 doesnt look too bad to me - any pictures of the drain plug covered with debris? Like they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. 2 thousand sometimes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted November 12, 2009 Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 Well, I've taken the whole clutch off and the kick start assembly and it would seem that the kick start pawl may be the cause of the swarf:What do people think? The pawl teeth are very burred and sharp. I'm tempted to replace the pawl, the gear and the springs, put it all back together with a new gasket and see how it goes. If there was noise or the gear box was clunky I wouldn't mess about, I'd strip it but I'd rather be riding it instead of having it in bits everywhere until I can find some time to sort it out. You might be o.k. as the pawl assembly is outside the main case, so the magnet is more likely to pick up the swarf before the trans bearings do. This is a classic case of what happens when the racheting mechanism is not engaged before kicking on the lever. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oxymoronic Posted November 12, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2009 It's a shame i didnt ask to drain the oil before i purchased-would have saved me this hassle. I've purchased the idler, the pawl and both springs-hopefully that will sort it. If it doesn't i can see this getting very expensive-those bits alone cost me 56 quid from gasgas uk. They're not particularly helpful either or willing to give any discount. Any suggestions for cheaper part prices? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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