Two Fer

[rabie]

re ishy's point - i appreciate the good humour you show with the question, so let phrase a counter question. Rugby League vs Union, it's all still rugby to an outsider, and certain parts of the world (wales, southern england, etc) enjoy union while others (northern england, NSW, etc) enjoy league. now does the division make their sport weaker - of course it does, on the other hand the wisdom of Solomon couldn't decide which one is right and should emerge triumphant.

re down south type sections - the harder routes can be ridden non stop by the very best, but the riders who are "aspiring" need to gather their thoughts/regroup/etc after each obsticle (because they are on top of each other, round tight corners, etc).

[the addict]

re down south type sections - the harder routes can be ridden non stop by the very best, but the riders who are "aspiring" need to gather their thoughts/regroup/etc after each obsticle (because they are on top of each other, round tight corners, etc).

So the gap will actually get wider between the top and the mid/end of the field not closer

[jordi]

So the gap will actually get wider between the top and the mid/end of the field not closer

I think Rabie has got it round the wrong way! Personally I think the field would close up if no stop was used in the south.

[the addict]

Jordi, do you ride the hard route? sorry but I don't know if you do or not

[jordi]

No, not very often these days, however I was clerk of the course this weekend and having laid out sections that did not require hopping it was interesting to see the marks lost with differing styles on the hard route.

This was also in deepest Sussex so cant get much further south!

[the addict]

Fair play Jordi, did the weather/ground conditions help the more open sections or is the venue quite good. I have noticed how some of the major hop riders can get themselves in alot of bother doing too much sometimes in sections when a steady throttle is best. I can hop pretty well and enjoy riding like that, but old enough to know when a hop is a route to disaster in a section. The trial I did last weekend pretty much could be ridden non stop but that was due to the ground being very wet and slippy, not sure what the CoC would have come up with in the summer when dry there though.

[pete_scorpa3]

I observed in the Ralph Varden Centre championship round at the weekend, it was a traditional style of event which you find in this area. Mud, cambers and wet tree roots. It's amazing how many riders lost marks trying to bounce and hop, when so many cleaned the section by riding it non stop.

I took a short break from observing when a mate appeared and I shot a few video clips. Remember the camera makes it look a lot flatter than it really is.

Concerning making sections too tight to be ridden non stop; don't forget it's ok to have a dab to get round a really tight turn, it gives you a 'one' not a 'five' whether the rules are stop or non-stop it's still just a one!

[nigel dabster]

I observed in the Ralph Varden Centre championship round at the weekend, it was a traditional style of event which you find in this area. Mud, cambers and wet tree roots. It's amazing how many riders lost marks trying to bounce and hop, when so many cleaned the section by riding it non stop.

I took a short break from observing when a mate appeared and I shot a few video clips. Remember the camera makes it look a lot flatter than it really is.

Concerning making sections too tight to be ridden non stop; don't forget it's ok to have a dab to get round a really tight turn, it gives you a 'one' not a 'five' whether the rules are stop or non-stop it's still just a one!

Good point, and if I took a dab cos it was too tight or I can't hop for a clean it illustrates why stop allowed needs to be an option.

[rabie]

I think Rabie has got it round the wrong way! Personally I think the field would close up if no stop was used in the south.

depends upon the section. i can think of some where i've observed (under the old TSR22A) and i've said i'll give a one for any sort of stop, and while it was tight, it could be ridden non stop by the very best (so they cleaned rather than accumulated ones for stooping and readjusting themselves!) - i these circumstances some of the aspiring guys on that route will accumulate the ones because they can put all the bits of the section together into a non stop motion (ie to clean rather than get ones).

but what jordi says is also true, some sections a guy riding non stop will power through for the clean, while someone trying to be too clever will loose marks.

i think it very much depends upon how the course is laid out, and even then what the land allows you to do. To lay out an expert course (we typically run at least 3 routes in the South East) or even an Elite (expert route with even harder deviations) you are often struggling with the terrain that we have to get something in that is tight and hard enough for them.

[ishy]

Reading the posts it

[tricky dicky]

I kind of agree Ishy. Trials has definitely lost its way in this country. There is the obvious problem that the top guys are head and shoulders above everybody else and the bikes are too good nowadays. I dont think the gate system is the way forward though, its making a mockery of trials cos isn't it the lowest score that wins?!!!!! Surely this gate system doesnt prove anything and just gives people the easy way out. The problem that I see is that people are scared of loosing marks which I really dont understand. Surely the aim is to improve and not have everything on a plate. I know people think its great to be able to hop about like toni bou but they are in a different league to what any of us are ever going to be. I agree with a previous post that surely a tight corner and not being able to stop and hop round is far harder than being able to stop and re-position. Sure hopping is a skill but sections shouldnt be designed that require hopping then the riders that cant hop will be on a level playing field but then the guys that can hop will use their skills to make the section easier. Surely that what trials is about. The main problem is people dont stick to the rules. The hopping rule solves nowt cos the riders are unpenalised for reversing.

[the addict]

I agree with a previous post that surely a tight corner and not being able to stop and hop round is far harder than being able to stop and re-position.

Many of these turns are impossible to ride around without hopping so no gain there, they're that tight so they take marks from the hoppers and no hoppers, If I can ride round a tight turn I always will, but you usually can't. They're set out like this as its the only way to take marks at some venues as theres nothing else to do it. Why do many harp back to the good old days B*****ks, the sport like many has evolved, riders are better and more skilled as a whole due to the bike technology and have more time to learn, yes years ago simple things were hard to clean but remember you had drum brakes that hardly worked, about half the power,cable clutches and twice the weight. The venues 30 years ago would have been easier to set out sections then than now

Edited December 15, 2009 by The Addict

[tricky dicky]

Its not anything to do with the good old days at all cos evolution is a good thing. The trouble is is that you are contradicting yourself by saying that the corners have to be that tight, the problem is that a hopper will go into the corner and stop, if the observer penalised this and said its a 5, end of story then it would soon stop these people from stopping and the corners would get ridden round properly. I made a section when I was doing a trials school at earl shilton and it was allegedly impossible without hopping until I rode it without hopping and the young lads I was training all managed it without hopping. That to me proves a point that when the lads rode it ****ing about hopping that they were losing marks left right and centre.

[the addict]

Earl Silton is a great venue as you know, not much need for mega tight turns there as theres plenty to go at. I'm not contradicting myself (I hope) my original concern is, if no stop comes here observers will not mark a stop as a five, like they never did or very rarely gave a stop a 1 last year? its what will happen I guarantee it, so going back to my first few posts, what is the point of non stop on the hard route.

I will at every chance ride a turn rather than hop, I,m good at hopping and enjoy riding like that but there are many turns you simply cant ride around without stopping or hopping. As good as I know you are you have just said what another of my worries will be for no stop down here, the gap will be bigger, you can easily get around a tight turn non stop where many wont and will be fived for it instead of a dab or a hop for clean.

Edited December 15, 2009 by The Addict

[zippy]

There already is non-stop trials it's called..................Enduro.