dan williams Posted June 7, 2017 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2017 Nice work. I think you'll like the 3mm of preload relief. It's not obvious at the start of the day but you'll really appreciate it by the end of an event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted October 18, 2017 Report Share Posted October 18, 2017 I just did the fix on my 2012 Evo 4T. The basket was in perfect order and the drive tags on the fibre plates were nicely finished so I just gave the corners the lightest lick with a file. The glue between the fibre pads was not as bad as some of the photos in this thread, but there was a nice little pile of filings by the time I finished. I have the stepped washers on the springs and they were already in the light setting so I left them that way. It's all back together now, generously oiled as I reassembled. I haven't been able to fire up as the carb and exhaust are still on the bench. I was disappointed to find that rocking to and fro in gear still exhibits the same cold stick. Or will it be free when it has been run for a few minutes and then left again? It was a mind-numbing job, and I would probably have given up after the first plate if I hadn't read so much enthusiastic praise for the job. I know my bike didn't start as bad as some earlier 2Ts so I'm not expecting such a great leap forward as them. If I can solve the cold stick and make it possible to get neutral with the engine running, I would call that a result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted October 21, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 21, 2017 Cold without starting the engine there’s not really enough vibration and shearing force to separate the plates, especially with thick oil. You’ve still got two large surfaces trying to pass by each other. Wait until you get it all back together and can ride it before determining success. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Dan, thanks for telling what I was hoping to hear . I've been a bit distracted by No 1 Favourite Son's wedding over the last few days so will stick it back together this week and go for a burble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lineaway Posted October 24, 2017 Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 We have probably about 15 4T`s in our club and never heard any complaints of cold stick. (The two stokes for sure) My son`s will slightly do it if it`s been sitting for a month. You might just try a brand change with the oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted October 24, 2017 Author Report Share Posted October 24, 2017 Yeah the 4t’s also use all six of the 3mm thick plates so they are different than the old thin plates. The newer bikes are also a lot better as far as the glue application. As Beta gets better with the quality of the plates the fix becomes less relevant. Of course the first thing I’ll do when the 2018 comes in is open the clutch and have a look. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted October 25, 2017 Report Share Posted October 25, 2017 On 24/10/2017 at 0:54 PM, lineaway said: We have probably about 15 4T`s in our club and never heard any complaints of cold stick. (The two stokes for sure) My son`s will slightly do it if it`s been sitting for a month. You might just try a brand change with the oil. I'm sure I've just done that as I've done the first oil change in my ownership so unless by accident I've picked the same brand.... Whether I've made it better or worse is yet to be determined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted October 28, 2017 Report Share Posted October 28, 2017 On 21/10/2017 at 9:56 PM, dan williams said: Cold without starting the engine there’s not really enough vibration and shearing force to separate the plates, especially with thick oil. You’ve still got two large surfaces trying to pass by each other. Wait until you get it all back together and can ride it before determining success. I finally managed to go out for a bit of a ride-around this morning. Straight out of the box I thought it was getting worse. The cold stick was really bad and took quite a lot of brute force to finally unstick the clutch. Then pottering about it was quite draggy: I could hold the clutch in in first gear and keep going forever. It did slip if I blipped the throttle though. After ten minutes it finally felt as if it was behaving properly. It is now possible (though not easy) to get neutral with the engine running. Further proving of the cold stick situation will have to wait until the trial next weekend. Unfortunately, with engine, gearbox and clutch all sharing the same oil, there's less scope for experimenting with different oils. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 I had another little practice session yesterday and did a trial today. Bad cold stick both times, and even a bit when I started up again after I got home (so just a couple of hours of standing). Clutch drag is also there for a few minutes after the first start of the day (even in 3rd gear). So for me, I'm afraid it's not been a success. Perhaps I'm using the wrong oil. It's Silkolene 15W50 fully synthetic. Any suggestions for something better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 I have a 2016 300 4T I just recently got. The previous owner always used Motol 300V 15-60 and said the clutch always worked well etc. So I used the same (likely will go to a lighter weight for here in winter). Even in freezing conditions I didn’t notice much clutch drag at all cold, perhaps a little when the clutch pulled in not quite all the way (hitting other fingers)- and had good feel. You could try it and see if it makes any difference for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 Thanks lotus54. 15W60 suggests that the oil viscosity will be the same when cold but greater when hot. While I can appreciate that other factors in the Motul oil may be beneficial, I don't think the grade change is going to help me. If there was a 10W50 I might be tempted by that. Motul do a 10W40 but I would be reluctant to go thinner at high temp. Anyone else got any suggestions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lotus54 Posted November 5, 2017 Report Share Posted November 5, 2017 They do make a 15-50 I’m not sure that it is any better than any other top oil, just using it since the PO had great results. https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/products/300v-factory-line-road-racing-15w50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trapezeartist Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 I have two factors to consider: Oil grade. Most oil companies make a 15/50, which is what Beta recommend. I'm just wondering if I could get to 10/50 in order to reduce cold viscosity with no change to what happens when it warms up. Other differences outside of the official grading. Whether Company A puts something into their blend that would make my clutch better than Company B. Total guesswork and wild, unguided experimentation. In either case, to carry out a valid comparison I should totally clean the contents of the engine and gearbox between oils, which realistically isn't going to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19delta Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 I was having all the problems you were having. Ray Peters told me to switch to Mobil 1 0W-40 full synthetic (European car formula). No idea why it works, but it's like magic! Get your bike good and hot, and change the oil. Ride it for 30 minutes or longer and change it again. Also, VERY important, fill to the dot on the center of the site glass. Depending on year, that will likely be around 475ml. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19delta Posted November 6, 2017 Report Share Posted November 6, 2017 Btw, Ray Peters knows more about engines, oils, and beta's than 10 smart mechanics combined. http://www.betausa.com/content/ray-peters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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