The Beta Clutch Fix

[klonheadd]

14 hours ago, trapezeartist said:

Thanks lotus54. 15W60 suggests that the oil viscosity will be the same when cold but greater when hot. While I can appreciate that other factors in the Motul  oil may be beneficial, I don't think the grade change is going to help me. If there was a 10W50 I might be tempted by that. Motul do a 10W40 but I would be reluctant to go thinner at high temp.

Anyone else got any suggestions?

For my Beta 4t I've run Ipone 10w-50 offroad fully synthetic for 2 years, never had clutch drag issue.

Now using Motul 7100 10w-50 ma2 fully synth road oil (I am using it for my ktm 990 too) - there is a clutch drag from time to time, only in first moment after starting up the bike. Otherwise  is v. good - I think i might have slightly better clucth control vs Ipone i was using. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by klonheadd

[trapezeartist]

5 hours ago, 19delta said:

I was having all the problems you were having. Ray Peters told me to switch to Mobil 1 0W-40 full synthetic (European car formula). No idea why it works, but it's like magic! 

Get your bike good and hot, and change the oil. Ride it for 30 minutes or longer and change it again. Also, VERY important, fill to the dot on the  center of the site glass. Depending on year, that will likely be around 475ml. 

Given the reference to 475ml, I assume you're using that in a 2T. I have a 4T and the same oil has to lubricate the engine too. That makes me very reluctant to move away from XW-50 because of the possible effect on engine lube.

2 hours ago, klonheadd said:

For my Beta 4t I've run Ipone 10w-50 offroad fully synthetic for 2 years, never had clutch drag issue.

Now using Motul 7100 10w-50 ma2 fully synth road oil (I am using it for my ktm 990 too) - there is a clutch drag from time to time, only in first moment after starting up the bike. Otherwise  is v. good - I think i might have slightly better clucth control vs Ipone i was using. 

I'll give one of those a go, I think. From you comments, the Ipone looked like the no-brainer until you slipped in the bit about clutch control. I need all the clutch control I can get. Perhaps it will come down to easy availability. Thanks.

[klonheadd]

13 minutes ago, trapezeartist said:

I need all the clutch control I can get. Perhaps it will come down to easy availability. Thanks.

Biggest change in clutch performance I have experienced was when I have upgraded clutch master cylinder to new Braktec master cylinder (same as on factory models and rest of new trials bikes). It brought a lot of feel and much more progressive action together with making clutch slightly easier to pull. I have a really well controllable clutch now. Still looking into getting upgraded clutch plates though for max gains  If it comes to oil, I want to test Repsol 10w50 fully synthetic, after trying Motul 7100  as it's in good price. 

[19delta]

The clutch fix did WONDERS! The oil was just the extra little icing on the cake.

 

Per Ray Peters instructions, my dad also used the Mobil 1 0W-40 on both his 250 evo 4t and his 300 4t with great success. I've only owned 2t. There are a lot of oil choices out there, not saying this is the only option, or even the best. It's just the answer to the problems my dad and I were both having. Just sharing my experience. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by 19delta

[carlos]

Mobile 1 0w-40, will have give it a try. It was only 3 degrees when we went for a ride yesterday. I've got 10 liters of it sitting in the garage for my Toyota.

 

[scifi]

I tried the removal of two clutch springs, but I am sure that on very long uphill roads in top gear the clutch seems to slip.

Anyone noticed this?  Mostly after quarter mile or so.

.

[dan williams]

Did you do the fix first or just pull a couple of springs?

[lineaway]

 Scifi you are better off to pull everything off including clutch arm and clean and lube than to remove springs. New cable and quality lever too. If still not satisfied try to find lighter springs or add small washers under the bolt or trim the springs. Good luck.

[scifi]

Hi Lineaway, these Beta Evos use hydraulic clutch (and brake) controls.  I think there are 70% springs available, that we could mix and match to get the correct amount of pressure, have not got around to buying any yet.

Dan Williams..  I did do the glue filing, and polishing of the tags and cage.   I am a bit too old fashioned to do much clutch action in sections, I just let it out at the start card, and pull it in at the finish cards !  So in the lower gears the slipping is not so apparent.

edit...  Whilst looking for clutch springs I found this on the internet...

http://betausa.com/sites/default/files/pdf/STT-2012-3-Evo 300 clutch set up.pdf

.

Edited November 11, 2017 by scifi

[lineaway]

 With a TY and all posts in twin shock I assumed you were making that better. My Evo I run gas gas 160 springs that I shortened. I have the lightest clutch that I know of that does not slip. I did this after damaging my clutch finger in a furnace fan last year..

[dan williams]

Ok, I ask because I believe the reason for Beta’s use of the heavy springs is to overcome the friction of the rough tabs so less spring pressure can cause drag and slip. Removing two springs without doing the tab polish is very likely to behave poorly.

While the original clutch fix worked like a charm for the old bikes it’s possible Beta’s variations in plates and throw height (3mm, 2.7mm friction plates. Six thin or four thin + two thick friction plates or six thick plates on the four stroke and the two different sliding faces on the metal plates) have made the results of the fix somewhat less predictable. In my experiance the glue application now is much better than it was but the tabs are still rough.

Slipping with two springs out is the reason I had the custom spacers made as they add a bit more spring pressure while still being very light.

I pick up a 2018 next week so I’ll see what the clutch looks like this year.

[scifi]

My local Beta supplier does not list the stepped washers, so I am in the process of making some on the lathe.

There are several possible combinations to get the lowest amount of pressure and still have no slip.   You could have all 6 pointing outwards for the max pressure, or reverse 2, 3, 4 or all, to keep the pressure plate balanced.   ( My Beta has just plain washers at present.)

.

[lineaway]

 You can do all that even better with just washers small enough to fit inside the springs. But you are still limited by the stock springs. 

[whitevancam]

I'm struggling with the clutch on my 2014 300 Factory 2T. I have ridden about half a dozen times properly and all seemed fine until the last ride where at the end of the day it started dragging so badly I couldn't disengage the clutch at all ( last Sunday ).

I tried it again on Monday night and it was still dragging.

I dropped the oil ( 300V) and removed the clutch, mine is the version with the two thicker outers, I've carried out the clutch fix although there wasn't a lot of glue and refilled with Nanotrans, I also bled the clutch just to be sure. All the friction plates and steels were flat and in good condition.

Have tried the bike again this afternoon and I thought it was ok at first then it went just as bad, so again with the lever against the bars it is still driving forward and pulling the front brake to stop the bike stalls the engine.

I'm not sure where to go from here.

I am thinking I may have a dodgy master cylinder seal and it is not fully moving the slave cylinder fully but with the clutch cover off it seems to operate the clutch the distance I would expect it to.

My second ever trial is in two weeks so need to resolve it before then!

Any ideas anyone??

[trapezeartist]

Similar to my experience, whitevancam. I did the glue-removing bit and found the tabs were already good so there was nothing to do there. It made no real difference: still suffering cold stick and dragginess for the first five minutes of riding. I thought maybe engaging neutral with the engine running was marginally better but I may have just been kidding myself.

I spoke to Lampkins and they advised roughing up the steel plate and changing to 10W40 oil (mine's a four stroke so my choices are more limited). So I took the clutch out again, wiped off all the oil I could, attacked the plates with P80 wet'n'dry to get a 120 deg cross-hatch, washed with paraffin and reassembled with plenty of oil. Then filled up with 10W40. I tried the bike again today and was disappointed to find there is still no change. New clutch plates?