dan williams Posted May 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 Unless you're an expert burning your clutch to do 8' splatters the clutch will last many years. Worst case you may have to dress the steel plates with fine emery cloth to deglaze them. Trials bikes are very unlike MX bikes so you are unlikely to ever replace a clutch pack for wear. The Sureflex fibers have been mentioned as being no better than stock. The Barnett plates are things of beauty but are only available in 3.0mm thickness where the stock Beta Adige plates are either all 2.7mm, mixed 2.7 & 3.0mm or in the case of the 4 stroke all 3.0mm. The newer plates from Beta seem to be much better as far as the glue goes. I really didn't have to do more on my 2018 than dress the tabs. As is the case with many manufacturers Beta's probably used clutch plates from the same production run for a decade and have only got new plates a few years ago. Trials riders tend to be very picky about controls so we spend hours tweaking them to be just right. Give it a few months on the trials bike trying to go slow and you'll find you notice stuff that never bothered you on any other bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrandt Posted May 28, 2020 Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 2 hours ago, dan williams said: Unless you're an expert burning your clutch to do 8' splatters the clutch will last many years. Worst case you may have to dress the steel plates with fine emery cloth to deglaze them. Trials bikes are very unlike MX bikes so you are unlikely to ever replace a clutch pack for wear. The Sureflex fibers have been mentioned as being no better than stock. The Barnett plates are things of beauty but are only available in 3.0mm thickness where the stock Beta Adige plates are either all 2.7mm, mixed 2.7 & 3.0mm or in the case of the 4 stroke all 3.0mm. The newer plates from Beta seem to be much better as far as the glue goes. I really didn't have to do more on my 2018 than dress the tabs. As is the case with many manufacturers Beta's probably used clutch plates from the same production run for a decade and have only got new plates a few years ago. Trials riders tend to be very picky about controls so we spend hours tweaking them to be just right. Give it a few months on the trials bike trying to go slow and you'll find you notice stuff that never bothered you on any other bike. Great perspective, thanks! In the 15+ years I've had my 2003 DRZ trail bike, I replaced the clutch once, and that was 10+ years ago and it didn't even really need it, I just felt "like I should" since I was doing other maintenance, too. I just wish it had a hydraulic clutch. The whole reason I got a trials bike was to get better clutch control (and because I used to compete in bicycle trials), so I figure at a minimum I'm going to be slipping the clutch a lot more than on my DRZ (which is almost never, lol) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted May 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2020 I have several friends that were hurt on trials bicycles. Those damn things are dangerous! I had a 2000 Rev3. I actually liked the upside down forks but they got a bad rap for flexing and making the steering imprecise. There was an aluminum fork brace you could get to make the front end stiffer. They say you should never buy the first year of a major change to a model but I really liked that 2000. Of course compared to the 2018 it's like steering the Queen Mary but for a starter bike it will be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrandt Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 9 hours ago, dan williams said: I have several friends that were hurt on trials bicycles. Those damn things are dangerous! I had a 2000 Rev3. I actually liked the upside down forks but they got a bad rap for flexing and making the steering imprecise. There was an aluminum fork brace you could get to make the front end stiffer. They say you should never buy the first year of a major change to a model but I really liked that 2000. Of course compared to the 2018 it's like steering the Queen Mary but for a starter bike it will be fine. My wife (GF at the time) almost left me because I broke my foot trials (bicycle) riding. She came around, lol... Now that I'm older and dumber, she told me I'm going to hurt myself with a moto trials. Yeah, the upside down forks are a bit odd, and finding parts/manuals is a little harder, but the price was right. For a first moto trials, it should suit me just fine. Since this is a clutch thread, I plan to keep it as is for now, and at least put some time on it (waiting for fork seals and a few other odds and ends), then I'll look at doing the mod once I get a little more seat time on it. It's killing me seeing it in pieces in the shop, and not being ridden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisCH Posted May 29, 2020 Report Share Posted May 29, 2020 I hope you enjoy the new bike! I bought a Rev 3 about 18 months ago and yes, I did read all the thread.... We have exchanged that for an Evo (2014) and the clutch is better. However, I have to agree with the earlier poster that the Nano Trans oil makes a huge difference (no idea why). With the Rev 3 it improved the clutch but did not "cure" it. The Evo when we bought it had clutch drag and cold stick and I have changed the oil twice since then with the Putoline. There is a little stick there now but I can ignore it (at least now in the warm weather). I am often sceptical about what you read on the internet and forums are places for people to air their weird ideas and think someone is listening, but that "tip" worked out for me. Many thanks to all the people who contributed to this thread - it is a fantastic resource. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbrandt Posted June 15, 2020 Report Share Posted June 15, 2020 On 5/26/2020 at 12:14 PM, harryharls said: Just use Putoline Nano Trans GP/N-Tech gear oil and save yourself all the hassle. Honestly, from my experience that's all you need to do! I tried all the filing and messing about and none of it really worked, once I put the nano Trans in, that was the end of it...sorted. I haven't been able to find a U.S. distributor of this stuff... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limmy01 Posted June 16, 2020 Report Share Posted June 16, 2020 Bought a Beta rev 3 a few months back and it had terrible clutch drag, would take at least 10mins of warming up before it was rideable. Now after doing this mod I can start the bike up and the clutch works straight away with no drag... Great post! Many Thanks Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardo78 Posted June 23, 2020 Report Share Posted June 23, 2020 28 pages is a lot to wade through.... I bought a new 300 4t from Mike Comer and love the bike, but find it stalling at inopportune times. I used to be a decent trials rider, but have been on hiatus for 10 years, and am now 60. With that in mind, my technique is a bit rusty, but I do remember how to ride.... So, my thoughts on the stalling is that the clutch is dragging, and the resistance stalls the engine in situations where I have zapped on to a rock, need to stop then turn tight. Somewhere in all of the clutch shenanigans that happen in this simple maneuver, it will stall at times, cold or warm. Is the original clutch mod Dan illustrates applicable to my bike, or is there another approach? Thanks, Ward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted June 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted June 24, 2020 The original mod of polishing the ends of the fiber tabs smooth works on any bike that has poorly finished plates. The newer plates seem to have a much better application of glue so the cleaning out between the pads is not so important anymore. Since you have the four stroke with all six 3mm thick fiber plates you do have the option of putting in the kevlar plates from Barnett. The finish on them is beautiful. I do have a set I could send up if you want them. I never used them but bought them to see if they would work on the 2t. They're just a tiny bit too thick for the 2t. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardo78 Posted June 24, 2020 Report Share Posted June 24, 2020 Thanks Dan! We've met a few times at NETA events back in the day. PM me how much do you want for the Barnett plates, I'd love to try them. Ward Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wardo78 Posted July 18, 2020 Report Share Posted July 18, 2020 I want to give a HUGE shout out to Dan! He has patiently helped me sort out my clutch issues on my 2020 300 4t, and even provided the parts gratis. My bike had what I understand to be the classic Beta clutch drag, with rpm's dropping significantly when in gear and the clutch lever being disengaged. It was causing me to stall at inopportune times, and to need to blip the throttle while doing tight turns or between steps. First, Dan sent me some super clean 3mm Barnett clutch plates he had around. They helped some and cleaned up the engagement a bit, but there was still drag, so next up he sent me a bunch of the requisite washers. I installed two of the .0025's, and it made a huge difference! I was SO much more confident on the bike and was immediately riding things I hadn't been able to since back in the day. I hadn't realized how much I was blipping the throttle to compensate for the clutch drag and resultant RPM drop. I am going to experiment with adding one of the thinner ones and see what that does, but am happy with my first WAG. They were a total game changer, and I have Dan to thank for it! Thanks Dan and everyone else here who shares your expertise so freely! Ward 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brackenbury Posted July 19, 2020 Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 On 7/18/2020 at 8:52 AM, wardo78 said: I want to give a HUGE shout out to Dan! He has patiently helped me sort out my clutch issues on my 2020 300 4t, and even provided the parts gratis. My bike had what I understand to be the classic Beta clutch drag, with rpm's dropping significantly when in gear and the clutch lever being disengaged. It was causing me to stall at inopportune times, and to need to blip the throttle while doing tight turns or between steps. First, Dan sent me some super clean 3mm Barnett clutch plates he had around. They helped some and cleaned up the engagement a bit, but there was still drag, so next up he sent me a bunch of the requisite washers. I installed two of the .0025's, and it made a huge difference! I was SO much more confident on the bike and was immediately riding things I hadn't been able to since back in the day. I hadn't realized how much I was blipping the throttle to compensate for the clutch drag and resultant RPM drop. I am going to experiment with adding one of the thinner ones and see what that does, but am happy with my first WAG. They were a total game changer, and I have Dan to thank for it! Thanks Dan and everyone else here who shares your expertise so freely! Ward Hi Ward So glad your happy with all that work and now starting to enjoy the bike as it should be. Yes a BIG thanks to you Dan for being a trouper on this issue and helping us all with your knowledge. Regards to all here Eric Brackenbury 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted July 19, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 19, 2020 I’m just learning with the rest of you guys.? Everybody whose added to this thread has provided insight and now we know the Barnett plates will work on the 4t. Thanks to Ward for being the guinea pig.? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted July 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 The learning continues... so with Ward’s success with the spacer washers I decided to throw some in my bike out of pure curiosity. My clutch wasn’t having a drag problem except a bit while cold but it can’t hurt to give it a try. I’ve always thought this shouldn’t work since the actuator mechanism should be self adjusting to take up play in the mechanicals caused by wear. So before pulling the pack with the clutch access cover off I pulled the lever to see if there was any dead zone in the actuation. The pressure plate moved immediately, as it should, but then I noticed something else. The basket also moved about 0.5 mm. Huh? Pulled the pack and checked the hub nut. Tight and locked in place. Tried manually pulling on the basket. Tiny almost undetectable movement. Actuate the clutch without the pack, no effect on basket. Re-assemble pack with two 0.25 washers and actuate lever. Pressure plate moves immediately and basket has no movement. Put cover back on for test ride and clutch feels slightly different. So here’s what I think is going on. Without the shims the entire clutch pack including the basket is able to move as a unit determined by the play in the basket. This pushes the clutch slave piston rest position back from the optimum position adding slack in the clutch actuation that cuts into the full throw of the actuator. I have to sit down and figure out exactly how the mechanicals interact. If anybody wants to give me a sanity check on this I’d appreciate it. Pull off the clutch cover, actuate the lever and feel the basket to see if it’s moving with the pressure plate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totty79 Posted July 24, 2020 Report Share Posted July 24, 2020 Did you check the clearance was within spec after adding shims? (0.2 to 0.8mm) The pressure plate moving immediately sounds concerning. I tried mine at 0.1mm and had to push it back to the van. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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