superhondaman Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 I purchased this TLR some3 years ago from John Lee M/C Acording to John It had been stored for 12 years prior to him buying it. The general condition then was ok, the engine ran well, but the whole bike really needed stripping and brought back to as near original condition as possible.Some markings on the engine and wheels pointed to it possibly being used in the SSDT at some stage and also the engine has RTL250E005169 on it? is this normal? I rebuilt the bike 2 years ago to the standard you can see, and i then went to register it for the road and to cut a long story short discoverd it had been registerd by Honda Uk in 1986 with the reg number C613 UBY. I would be interested if anyone might know what happend between 1986 and 2001. Just to point out that it is very smooth no spitting or coughing that keeps getting mentioned on the forum. It has an external oil feed, as can be seen and a few people that have rode it always comment on how nice it is compared to other TLR,s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted December 23, 2004 Report Share Posted December 23, 2004 Il check my engine numbers tomorrow to see if this is similar to my 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 I don't think the ratio's are as bad a problem as people make out, i have my 250 geared up, but still use 1st, 2nd and 3rd in sections regularly. I think it's a bit unfair to the bike when folk come on and say the ratios are a "major" problem when clearly it is not. Also you get the old "Oh yes they all spit back & stall etc" when in reality this almost never happens. These are very minor issues on a bike generally accepted to be the most sought after twinshock around, especially when compared with any Spanish twinshock and the TY's. That's it, Rant over! Merry Xmas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 (edited) Some markings on the engine and wheels pointed to it possibly being used in the SSDT at some stage and also the engine has RTL250E005169 on it? is this normal? Had a look at my two bikes this morning - both have similar engine numbers begining ME07E-5****** I would advise against quoting full engine/frame/reg numbers on the web. Could you post a couple pictures of your engine on the site - ie with the tank removed then someone like 'Big John' who dreams about RTL's and can quote some of the RTL part numbers off the top of his head may give a yeah or nay whether or not the bike has an RTL motor. I have seen other TLR's with external oil feeds - at the Manx classic trial last year if I remember correctly. As for stalling/spitting back my bike used to occasionally suffer from this but it was more due to my riding . I actually geared the bike down slightly running a 9/44 rather than 9/39 ratio, this certainly seems to have improved the situation, the only other change I made was to increase the tickover speed . My new bike has a different exhaust system and seems smoother at low revs. After 2 hours running its hard to say whether or not there is any problem with stalling/spitting back but I will still use this as an excuse at my 1st trial on it! As for being competetive - the 2003 Scottish twinshock champion rode a std TLR250, complete with lights and std shocks! Edited December 24, 2004 by g4321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtrider Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 That said though, the TLR's can be improved a great deal, without spending a tremendous amount of money, and other than an RS, remain the best choice for anyone wanting to ride twin-shock events on a four stroke machine. Come on then give us a clue. What do you have to do to improve them and make them competitive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinm Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 You are quite right though the TLR is the most popular t/shock bike around at the moment, but in standard form they are perhaps not the best choice for anyone who might have a realistic chance of success at national level twin-shock events. So what do you reckon is the most competetive bike at National level then? I have lost the results of the Torridge round that I rode in back in the summer, but there were three TLR's that finished in the top ten....none of which had been modified much. I think when you get to National level, the rider is more important than the bike......put the top three riders on the worst three bikes at the event...and they will still probably beat everyone else! PS. HondaRS what you riding at Somerton on Monday then? Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky g Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 Also you get the old "Oh yes they all spit back & stall etc" when in reality this almost never happens.These are very minor issues on a bike generally accepted to be the most sought after twinshock around, especially when compared with any Spanish twinshock and the TY's. That's it, Rant over! Merry Xmas Both mine used to do the spitting and stalling thing, wasn't the reason I sold them though, bit unfair to say it never happens though. I'm aiming to ride all the ACU T/shock rounds in 05, I'll keep an eye on the TLR's to see how they go against the two strokes. Thats if I can find any standard one's! last year the ones that took my eye all seemed to have lots of money spent on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 Externally the RTL engine is almost exactly the same as the TLR250 Whats the internal differences - apart from gearing? TLR's can be improved a great deal, without spending a tremendous amount of money Please enlighten me on what mods are required? I have seen several people say mods are required but as yet have not seen any information on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 TLR can be made to run far better with increased gas speed through intake port at low rpm, decreased compression ratio, and careful rejetting to suit. I was aware of the 'reductioin in compression ratio' improvement. This is relatively easy if/when you have the bike stripped down - by using a thicker base gasket - since the base gasket is no longer available from Honda you have to make your own anyway. On my new bike I used the thickest gasket paper I had. The gas flow would require fairly radical head-work - possibly reducing port diameter to increase flow speed - am I correct? Rejetting - is this only for low speed running - would low speed mixture adjustment via air screw be sufficient? Unless you have a lot of skill in reading carburation (or access to a rolling road...???) going beyond this I suspect would be difficult to get right . Best exhaust sytem to use is std part, with 250 front pipe on 200's, failing that a DEP silencer system works better than a WES. I have tried a bike with WES exhaust alongside mine which has std front box but with one-off rear box . Both the owner of the other bike and myself felt my bike pulled better at low revs - the only difference was the exhaust. I suspect the improvend low speed running with the original front silencer is due to the decrease in volume ofthe WES exhaust. - any thoughts? the std chassis is very light on the front, and its difficult to keep control in some situations (although 200 doesnt need this mod) Agree - especially the 'difficult to keep control in some situations' - this I put down to my lack of skill & lack of set-up skills! On comparisson to 200 I felt 200 was easier to controll due to gentler/softer power delivery. The other mods I have heard of are: 1 optimising the cam timing - by slotting the mounting holes on cam sprocket - this would take a lot of trial and error to get correct. 2 The clutch arm can easily be lengthened to give a lighter pull. 3 Running without airbox & using foam or K& N style filter - jetting accordingly. I would have thought this would make low speed running worse but improve 'top end power' - please correct me if i am wrong Owning a Gollner TLR250 I have heard the rumour of different 2nd and 3rd ratios in the gearbox - I could not identify anything unusual when i stripped the box but found out from 'Farley's' that they thought this was only carried out on the 200's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted December 24, 2004 Report Share Posted December 24, 2004 Actually the chassis isn't that light at the front, but the snatchy power delivery of the 250 often makes the front end feel light, this is the reason the 200 sometimes feels a bit more planted, as it's power delivery is smoother. I have to say after 7 years of riding a TLR 250 the main problem to overcome is the snatchy power at very low RPM, i have tested bikes with altered cam timing to run smooth but this has severely cut the top end performance of the engine, and this is just not worth the compromise for me. Alot of riders run a high idle speed to help overcome this low down snatchiness, another mod is to fit RTL clutch plates which are less grabby than the standard ones, this makes it easier to clutch the bike around tight turns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky g Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 Sounds like quite a bit of work to fully sort one out then, and a fair bit of know how too. Just found out a couple of pics of my last TLR, I'll post them when I can be a***d to scan them in. One of the reasons I sold mine in favour of two strokes was the low down snatchy power del, I had a go on a TYR Yam and I thought it was just so easy to ride compared to the Honda. I owned both of mine in my early days of trails so that wouldn't have helped with the power thing, I can see why the bikes have gained a bit of a cult following though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 Really it's mostly down to the rider though, and how you adapt to a particular machine, most people are not familiar with four stroke trials bikes, and therefore can't adapt their riding style to make them work properly. No two stroke t/shock will find grip like a TLR, this is why many people see them as the best t/shock around, but they need to be ridden with the right technique to make them work. On the other hand, something like a TY is very easy to ride, and for this reason some people think these are the best bikes, but the trade off is that they lack power. Choose your weapon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 Bit optimistic there RS. I ride with two blokes on Fantic 300's and they don't put out as much as my TLR250 (although it has modified exhaust) We could really do with a full on test day with all the t/shocks present. That would be cool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 I rode an RS 250 a couple of years back freshly rebuilt, very trick machine, beautiful,but it didn't have any top end go. Certainly a lot less than the TLR 250 sorry if thats not meant to be true but the difference was like night & day, couldn' say any more than that really. Would like to have a test on yours as a comparison, are you going to Bootle round in March? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marky g Posted December 25, 2004 Report Share Posted December 25, 2004 240 Fantic seemed quite popular at the Welsh Trophey last year, probably grips as good as anything. I'd probably buy another TLR if it came for under Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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