toofasttim Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Caby has gone back to the 2T, Mont are looking a bit ragged in the sales dept and Gasser seem to have halted development of their 4T. Have the 4T's died a death? Have the FIM given up trying to dictate to us? Discuss. (Andy, please "pin" the Dabster poll. It's a shame to bounce it from the top of the list) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 Its a strange one Tim, you see most other motorsports are using four stroke motors as they definately run a lot cleaner than two-strokes, OK we could argue that one day with efi the emissions from a 2T would be minimal, but trials is becoming a sport on its own it seems having held on to 2T motors for longer. Maybe I'm wronghere, but MX and racing has seen a growth of 2T motors over the last 10 years. I prefer a 4T motor myself, but that's just me! Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 I hope the 4t is dead I have never liked them really, they cause more problems than they solve (we have won zero friends for cleaner emmissions but lost some friends due to the excessive noise). they cost more but are less effective unless you are called Toni and can spend 300k euro on a bike. Cabs did ok on his indoors but the rest of us dont ride indoors anyway. 2t all day every day for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonybroad Posted January 10, 2010 Report Share Posted January 10, 2010 (edited) there are cleaner 2 strokes being developed which match and better 4 strokes now, they are certainly not dead, they have fuel injection and sealed cranks so the amount of oil burned is marginal new ossa is fuel injected that said the montesas were impressive in sheffield last night tony Edited January 11, 2010 by tonybroad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted January 11, 2010 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) John, you're (IMO) right. 2Ts have been experiencing a revival in MX. Cost is the big factor. The costs of running a 4T priced the sport out of many peoples reach. The same for trials and enduros, 2Ts are cheap and cheerful. Regarding your personal preference, be honest here John, you won't be happy unless it's name starts with an "AJ" and ends with an "S" (*edit* actually I know that your preference is Matchless but it doesn't sound as good as AJS) Edited January 11, 2010 by TooFastTim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdeane01 Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Here in Australia there are no longer any of the top riders using a four stroke. I guess money is a factor (also seemed to complain that they were more difficult to ride), but also the only world riders on them anymore are the Repsol riders, and those bikes are so far from standard or what we public can buy (i know the other riders bikes are different from stock but the gap is not so large). What is scary is I wonder how those riders (Bou, Fugi, Saiz) would go on another make and a 2 stroke. Speaking of this, what bike will they ride in the future? I hear montesa are no longer producing their 4rt, so what will be ridden by Bou and Fugi beyond 2010? Did they buy the surplus stock and will they use them for a few more years? Anyone got any answers to these or heard anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steveo Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 I have often wondered if Bou or Fugi have ever had a sneak ride on a 2T, and wondered what they thought ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreetfora3 Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 I hope the 4t is deadI have never liked them really, they cause more problems than they solve (we have won zero friends for cleaner emmissions but lost some friends due to the excessive noise). they cost more but are less effective unless you are called Toni and can spend 300k euro on a bike. Cabs did ok on his indoors but the rest of us dont ride indoors anyway. 2t all day every day for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alreetfora3 Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 thort you owned one ,at one time baldilocks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtlr Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 hey i rode 4 strokes from 1991 (Honda's mont 4rt and now sherco) idd the noise is a issue and they are all to noisy (expt beta) i love my 4 stroke but 2 strokes are just easier to ride cheaper and easier to sell, so mayby i will change to but then i have to learn to ride again (i never rode well on a 2 stroke) i dont understand why those modern 4 strokes are so loud my tlr is 25 years old and it makes no noise, from 30 meters you cant hear it. regards bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Yes your Tlr is quiet but then it also won't be producing similar levels of power to the 2strokes of the time. I haven't ridden a 4rt with all the restricters fitted but would guess that power is down quite a bit compared to the unrestricted bikes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rabie Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 at the end of the day sales will determine it, if the 4t sales drop off a cliff the montesa is in real trouble... two questions for you all; a) has California actually banned all two strokes - if so, while it doesn't affect trials, but it's one of the largest off road motorcycle markets in the world what is the latest on European emissions legislation (ie are we going to end up with EFI'ed 2Ts) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 Yes your Tlr is quiet but then it also won't be producing similar levels of power to the 2strokes of the time. I haven't ridden a 4rt with all the restricters fitted but would guess that power is down quite a bit compared to the unrestricted bikes It's a bit hazy in the memroy now but mine had the restrictor in the front pipe removed (essential) but retained the one at the inlet of the rear silencer and the end cap (as per recommendation from Sandifords) I think it is removing the end cap that creates the noise. My mate's had all the restrictors removed. There was no noticeable difference in power between my bike and his, but plenty in noise level... I think the problem with today's 4-strokes is not the fact that they are 4-strokes, more the way they are designed. In certain conditions I could get more grip from my C15 than my 4RT. At one trial i couldn't get the 4RT into one section as it wouldn't find grip so we went back after the trial. My mate and I both tried it and unless we were in 4th gear we still could barely clear the start cards, neither of us could do any better than legging it through. We were doing it in 1st on my mate's 315, clean every time. 4-strokes will grip in mud no problem but the Mont/Beta/Scorpa and Sherco in particular are not easy bikes to ride in mud. The power delivery is too abrupt on all and they spin up at the slightest touch of the throttle in slimy conditions. I've been able to clean a greasy section on my KT250 but couldn't touch it on my mate's Beta 4T, it just span up at the slightest throttle. 4-strokes in our centre (Midland) are definitely thinning out, people have tried them but are slowly but surely going back to 2-strokes. Two reasons most likely, the difficulty of riding them in mud (of which 90% of our events consist of) and possibly the potential cost of an engine rebuild when the time comes (a motocross engine will put a hole in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 thort you owned one ,at one time baldilocks? no i borrowed craigs for one trial as I thought about one for the SSDT but one day was quite enough.... thort you went to school ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted January 11, 2010 Report Share Posted January 11, 2010 ClASSIC "thort you went to school ? " Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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