superhondaman Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Read someware about alternative clutch plates to help stop the 'on/off' action? was Birket doing some special ones for the 200? or which are the best ones to use. Also is it best to go with mono grade (20 winter/30 summer) or 10/40, i feel that modern oils have more additives in, which contribute to clutch slip? any thoughts on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Interestingly, the gearbox and clutch doesn't seem to work as smooth with full synthetic oil, as with semi-synthetic. Also i have heard that Honda CRM 80 or CR 80M clutch plates are also an improvement over standard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 (edited) Aplleyards advise to use CG125 plates. Are the CR80 plates same part number as CG125 plates? I fitted EBC plates to one of my bikes - needed them in a hurry and for the 1st time got clutch slip - a friend who slips the clutch constantly on his bike had tried mine for 5 - 10 minutes - possibly he had tightened up cable but I think it was the abuse the clutch got from him which caused it to slip once I got bike back. After 10 minutes ;normal' running the clutch was back to normal - ie no slip. Oil the TLR200 manual advises a SAW 10W-40 oil - SE or SF API. The 250 addendum does not quote an oil grade. Farley motorcycles advise fully synthetic castrol GP4 oil. I have been using good quality semi-synthetic or fully synthetic car oil for years in one of my TLR's with no problems - its cheaper than bike oil and alows regular oil changes - ie every hard or long trial. I was going to continue with this but due to the clutch slip noticed on the other bike (just in case its oil related which I doubt) i am probably going back to bike oil for a few changes! Edited December 28, 2004 by g4321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhondaman Posted December 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Genuine Honda CG125 plates are fine..........also carefully check driven plates for wear distortion, and get them bead-blasted to help with oil retention before you reassemble.You can use a high spec monograde oil, but this is not really needed for trials use, although I think it is whats specified by Honda in the RTL workshop manual. The main thing with any Honda four stroke trials bike, is for the oil to be changed regularly. A reasonable quality 10/40 (non synthetic) is fine, change after every 2 trials, and do make sure centrifrugal filter on end of crank is quite clean. are you saying 'use cg125 plates' over genuine TLR one's? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhondaman Posted December 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 Fully synthetic oils will definitely do bikes with a wet clutch no good at all! It seems to get into the friction material of the plates, and ruins them........only cure is to replace them!If you want to use expensive oil and change it after every couple of trials than thats fine, but in all honesty a reasonable quality 10/40 mineral oil changed often will be just fine. I change the oil regulary, how often should the centrifugal pump be cleaned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted December 28, 2004 Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 When I bought my first TLR250 several years ago I purchased clutch plates from Colin Appleyards who advised me to use genuine CG125 friction plates rather than the ones listed for the TLR. Aftermarket plates for the TLR and CG are the same in the EBC catalogue. As for the Centrifugal filter I only clean this once or twice a year - say every 6 - 10 oil changes. As yet i have not found anything significant in it - only the first time I cleaned it when i first bought the bike!. If I found anything out of the ordinary in the mesh filter I would investigate the centrifugal filter . With my 'new' bike I will give it a couple of oil changes before checking the filter then depending on the results move towards my normal schedule. No doubt someone else willgive you a different opinion! The TLR200 manual lists oil change every 2000miles / 1year and mesh filter cleaning the same interval. the centrifugal filter it lists every 7200miles. By the way your 250 looks everybit as good in the flesh as it does in the photos - I spoke to you at the Manx this year at the start of the trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superhondaman Posted December 28, 2004 Author Report Share Posted December 28, 2004 When I bought my first TLR250 several years ago I purchased clutch plates from Colin Appleyards who advised me to use genuine CG125 friction plates rather than the ones listed for the TLR. Aftermarket plates for the TLR and CG are the same in the EBC catalogue. As for the Centrifugal filter I only clean this once or twice a year - say every 6 - 10 oil changes. As yet i have not found anything significant in it - only the first time I cleaned it when i first bought the bike!. If I found anything out of the ordinary in the mesh filter I would investigate the centrifugal filter . With my 'new' bike I will give it a couple of oil changes before checking the filter then depending on the results move towards my normal schedule. No doubt someone else willgive you a different opinion! The TLR200 manual lists oil change every 2000miles / 1year and mesh filter cleaning the same interval. the centrifugal filter it lists every 7200miles. By the way your 250 looks everybit as good in the flesh as it does in the photos - I spoke to you at the Manx this year at the start of the trial. Yes i remember you, hope to get an entry for 2005, see you there? Will fit some CG125 plates, tend to use 3rd and even 4th at times and when under load it slips badly. Have to adjust cable on clutch from cold to hot, is this the norm? The bike needs a bit of TLC now, might get it painted for the Manx. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 clutch lightener on the operating arm, then this could be causing your problems, as generally on bikes fitted with these the clutch will not disengage fully, when it gets very hot Have to adjust cable on clutch from cold to hot, is this the norm? Both these comments confirm what I thought about the clutch slip I was temporarily suffering on Monday. The bike has a longer operating arm - gives a lovely light feel to the clutch though and i had just tightened up the play in the cable a little before lending it to a guy who is used to riding the clutch of his bike all the time - all adds up to a recipe for clutch slip? When the clutch had cooled down - normal riding and i reset the play to what it was before there was no sign of slip at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g4321 Posted December 29, 2004 Report Share Posted December 29, 2004 (edited) As you all probably know Honda have the samebasic clutch design/size in most of the sub 200cc single cylinder 4 stroke motors. The TLR250 and TRX250 quad along withthe CR80 schoolboy scrambles bike must be really pushing the plates to the limit. No wonder there is sometimes some slip noticed if you torture the clutch a little. As for the CR80 these are thrashed within an inch of their lives each time the engine is run with little or no finess in the use of the clutch. Since these bikes tend to be largely unburstable and suffer little or no maintenance in many cases it may be worth finding out a little more on whether std honda CR80 plates are different spec to the other bikes (they are the same size in the EBC book). CR80 plates may give a little more leeway to you guys who ride the clutch all the time ? Just a thought? Had a look at part nos for various clutch plates ( I have no access to CG125 fiche & Americans have not heard of it!) TLR250 & 200 22201 - KB4 - 670 - superceeded by part 22201 - GF6 - 000 - listed at $9.52 each on US sites XR200 22201 - GF6 - 000 (superceeds part no 22201 - 166 - 000) XL125 22201 - 166 - 000 CR85 22201-MR8-000 $7.61 The site I was looking at did not have a fiche for CR80 but this looks to be same clutch. Note the difference in price! Interestingly Dave Silver spares still lists a clutch kit for TLR250F Edited December 29, 2004 by g4321 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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