Trials Should Take A Lesson From F1

[borus]

Hi all

F1 has struggled to keep going and made many changes to keep Teams and sport alive.

Trials or the FIM should take a look at this.

Here's some suggestions or topics areas for trials:

Maximum engine displacement of 250 cc

Minimum weight of 155 lbs at tech inspection - 70 kgs

Minimum seat height of 30 inches

FI, programmable and 2 or 3 map ignitions banned - (have you ever priced this stuff out?)

Production models must be used in competition by world round riders.

results: -

a bike that the public can better identify with

much lower manufacturing costs and R&D

sections difficulty will have to adapt to lower power and heavier bike. (world level)

lower bike costs for the customers, trials target market will grow, trials will grow, manufacturers won't have struggle to stay in business.

cheers

bob

[ham2]

Hey,great minds think alike! I've been thinking of a handicap system to even things out and to stop Bou running away with all the titles again...a ballast penalty depending on your finishing position.

You know ...add 5 Kg to the 1st place bike..... 3 for the 2nd place etc....

Ballast to be fitted somewhere over the head stock,where it's no use.

At he last round of the year I would look great going past Bou and Raga as they 5'd the sections with front wheel punctures while I get through with a mad spider 3

(Ignore that last sentence.......I'm trying to set up a wireless router and I'm slowly going mad)

[tonybroad]

adding restrictions and regulations to any motorsport simply stifles development, F1 can't develop cos it's not allowed to now, they are even told how much they can test or use wind tunnels

i reckon in trials it's rarely the bike that wins and no one manufacturer dominates trials, tony bou would stand a chance of winning on any bike

new ossa - fuel injected efficient 2 stroke, reverse cylinder, lots of new stuff

leave as is i say

Tony

[nigel dabster]

Hi all

F1 has struggled to keep going and made many changes to keep Teams and sport alive.

Trials or the FIM should take a look at this.

Here's some suggestions or topics areas for trials:

Maximum engine displacement of 250 cc

R & D will spend $$$ on getting more power from 250's and these will become difficult for the average guy to ride.

Minimum weight of 155 lbs at tech inspection - 70 kgs Benefits the most expensive and heavy 4rt why?

Minimum seat height of 30 inches What would this do? Seat near the bars would get round it? Bikes would be built to avoid rules, daft.

FI, programmable and 2 or 3 map ignitions banned - (have you ever priced this stuff out?) All ignitions are programmed somewhere, otherwise they wouldn't be different from bike to bike. Most that have a switch can only add a few cents to cost surely.

Production models must be used in competition by world round riders. They pretty much are now with the exception of HRC, the others are very much production based, have you been to a wtc recently?

results: -

a bike that the public can better identify with they can now

much lower manufacturing costs and R&D why and how would any of the suggestions have this effect? How big do you think the r & d budgets are?

sections difficulty will have to adapt to lower power and heavier bike. (world level) doubtful, year on year sections get harder

lower bike costs for the customers, nope trials target market will grow, tweaking the rules will do this? trials will grow, doubtful manufacturers won't have struggle to stay in business. The usa can't even support an importer for montesa

cheers

bob

[nigel dabster]

adding restrictions and regulations to any motorsport simply stifles development, F1 can't develop cos it's not allowed to now, they are even told how much they can test or use wind tunnels

i reckon in trials it's rarely the bike that wins and no one manufacturer dominates trials, tony bou would stand a chance of winning on any bike

new ossa - fuel injected efficient 2 stroke, reverse cylinder, lots of new stuff

leave as is i say

Tony

Whatever make tony would win. Whatever rules too.

[borus]

Hi all again:

Forgot to mention what originally started me thinking about this way back when in 2008 I think. It was an article by Sammy Miller. I agreed with with him then and still do now.

cheers

bob

Edited March 6, 2010 by borus

[dan williams]

Sillyness. If you want to grow the sport make it more accessable to the beginner. More beginners = more riders at all levels of the sport. There are plenty of used bikes that are up and down the price scale.

Golf isn't huge because there is a limit to flexibility of a 3 wood shaft for the pros. It's huge because any duffer can go out and in 1/2 an hour be hacking his way through 9 holes at a local public course. Have fun, hang around the club house bar after and go home, lighter in the wallet, but not beat up.

Trials will always be limited by several things.

1. Even used bikes are expensive.

2. Trials suffers from an image problem when it has an image at all.

3. Trials is a "single combat warrior" type of sport. There's no us vs. them glory aside from the usual brand sniping.

4. It takes a peculiar mentality to enjoy going out and scaring yourself at 1MPH, and doing it repeatedly in order to get better. Trials takes patience and there is a long time between starting to ride and starting to really enjoy for many people. This is why focussing on the beginner is critical. Every time a beginner is lost it isn't just one rider. It's all the riders that beginner can bring into the sport. The old timers are have a limited number of new contacts to bring in but beginners open up a whole new untapped resource for expansion.

5. Trials is a sport for control freaks. This makes organizing trials people like herding cats. Getting them to all pull together on any issue is at best painful and often impossible. We have seen the enemy and they is us.

6. Trials spectating requires work. Spectators and particularly Americans don't like to work for entertainment. There I said it.

7. Trials is not about speed and big air. Most kids like speed and big air.

8. Trials people who love the sport don't want to lose the close-knit family atmosphere.

9. Trials people are generally myopic. They simply don't understand why others can't see the sport the way we see it. Hence most marketing plans for events are completely ridiculous. Surfers think their sport is the greatest thing in the world and to them it is. Has that ever enticed you to go to a surfing competition?

Using F1 as an example is interesting because F1 is not that big a deal in the US. NASCAR is and they are losing ground too. Quite frankly if NASCAR suddenly decided to go full production vehicle base chassis like it was in the 60's and 70's would they see a big increase in spectators? Doubt it. Would it get me to a track to watch them go around in circles? No. But talk to a hardcore NASCAR fan and they can't believe you are too stupid to realize that it's the greatest spectacle on earth. Same with "professional" wrestling fans or World Cup football fans.

Trials must realize the rest of the world doesn't see us as we see ourselves. Once that's done the process of education and marketing can begin. That requires an understanding of what it takes to catch the interest of the average Joe on the street.

As for how do you grow the sport on a local level? Again make it accessable and fun to the beginner. That is the entire recipe for success. All the rules changes at the national and world levels won't make a bit of difference.

[motovate_me]

Interesting thread.

Yes, Trials needs to be more accessible.

How to do this? Well, long story short (for no intent to gain financially)... I have found it extremely difficult to build a business, which could help do just that.

There are so many issues and much red tape in the UK surrounding what I, and others, currently and in the past have tried to achieve...

Namely;

Insurance, liability, governing bodies, land, costs, media, health and safety and dare I say it, monopolies.

Some aspects of Trials are somewhat behind the times. Some people involved in some of the above are very comfortable with how things are. There is an element of an old school, old boys network. Some of these are interested in development, others are not, money alone seems to talk for a few.

Yes, kids old and young look at going big, but right now, guys like Danny Mac, Toni Bou and Julian Dupont to name a few, are in the up to date, free media and do enough I'd say, to make the sport attractive to those who come across it.

Just like Ot Pi, Eddie Lejeune, Hans Rey, Jordi Tarres, Steve Saunders, etc did when I was mesmerized by the sport, but had to get my parents to buy me the

[lineaway]

The reply about usa has no support for montesa is interesting. All montesa`s imported since Honda bought montesa where a gray market product in this country. Great product ,but no direct factory support since 1993.

Edited March 6, 2010 by lineaway

[smalley250]

The sport is possibly the cheapest motorsport in the world to do and compete at any level. It is mainly skill based regardless of machine as in know of a lad who had awesome skills way better than sponsered riders yet had lost interest in trials but still use to now and again compete on an old Scorpa totally knackered yet wiped the floor in a trial. I dont think the skill level is the same in F1 as they go around and around on the same tarmac.

I love F1 but rate WRC or any of road harder in challenge. Wonder how Riakkonen gets on in WRC interesting to see.

[dgraf]

questions answered

yes it is difficult to watch a trials competition(most events you will need a bike to see it all(

this applies to US events we usually have long loops)

No! I really don't give a damn about the media covering my sport

yes, trials riders are weird.

No! it is not for everyone.

yes, we need some rules.

No! the bike you bring to ride should not matter(example I rode my TL125 against 175, 250 and 350's)

Yes the people who whine are not terribly good riders.

yes you will have to practice more than one day a week(if you really want that trophy)

Yes, Yes and Yes in the '70 the only rule was bring a trials bike and have fun!

sorry for the ranting

[martin belair]

The reply about usa has no support for montesa is interesting. All montesa`s imported since Honda bought montesa where a gray market product in this country. Great product ,but no direct factory support since 1993.

What the heck Bob? What are you trying to accomplish with your comments? You have been around the sport a long time, so I am surprised to see you post something like this. You do yourself a disservice.

What bothers me Bob, is the lack of gratitude you show the Montesa factory for their support of American riders. You say there has been "no direct factory support since 1993".

Not true. Montesa has supported American trials riders in the USA and abroad for over 40 years.

Martin

PS: Hey Bob, I began importing in 1991. Montesa was bought by Honda in 1984. What significance does 1993 have? I don't even understand what your comments are doing in this thread.

Edited March 9, 2010 by Martin Belair

[slapshot 3]

Hi all

F1 has struggled to keep going and made many changes to keep Teams and sport alive.

Trials or the FIM should take a look at this.

Here's some suggestions or topics areas for trials:

Maximum engine displacement of 250 cc

Minimum weight of 155 lbs at tech inspection - 70 kgs

Minimum seat height of 30 inches

FI, programmable and 2 or 3 map ignitions banned - (have you ever priced this stuff out?)

Production models must be used in competition by world round riders.

results: -

a bike that the public can better identify with

much lower manufacturing costs and R&D

sections difficulty will have to adapt to lower power and heavier bike. (world level)

lower bike costs for the customers, trials target market will grow, trials will grow, manufacturers won't have struggle to stay in business.

cheers

bob

Stiffling technical development will do nothing for trials, I think you are looking at it from the wrong perspective. Giving the management and finances, to some Ecclestone like megalomaniac wouldn't work either.

I do not believe you can compare F1 to trials because the base budgets are so far apart it's practically impossible to find areas of parity. Dabster has put your technical arguements to the sword already, personally your flogging a dead horse with this one.

[toofasttim]

Interesting observations Dan, however I would like to take issue with this one:

2. Trials suffers from an image problem when it has an image at all.

That was certainly true in the past. Disciples of other off-road disciplines often looked down their noses at the sport for "old men" and "riders who were too scared to go fast". However in the last 10-15 yrs this attitude has changed dramatically. I attribute this change in attitude to enduros being dominated by trials and ex-trials riders. This has raised peoples awareness of the sport and they've been watching WTC videos (perhaps access to videos has helped in changing attitudes too) and people are impressed and intrigued. This, in turn, has led to our off-road friends dabbling in trials and discovering it's a hell of lot more difficult than it looks.

IMO, previously trials was considered oddball it's now accorded the respect it deserves in the greater motorcycling community

[mikey]

I'm not sure if I agree with the F1 ideas, but if you want to broaden appeal and make trials a popular sport with today's kids the answer is simple...

Take it to the X Games.

Toni Bou would become a worldwide phenomenon then, not just within the sport of Trials and, acting in much the same manner ad Travis Pastrana does still, he would become an idol for a whole new generation of youngsters.