Pre 65 Bultaco M10

[twinshock]

G'Day

We have an ongoing discussion going on in Australia regarding the fact that a Bultaco Sherpa M10 won our national championship Classic (Pre 65) class last year and with the championships coming up again soon we need to know the facts about this model of Bultaco.

Can anyone tell us without any shadow of doubt that the M10 was available to the retail market prior to Jan 1st 1965. My memory isn't clear enough to recall when Sam first appeared on his Sherpa but somewhere there must be facts and figures to either support or dispute the legitemacy of the model over here.

I need to be refered to manufacturers records or something definite that proves when mass production of the M10 started.

Can anyone help please

Twinshock

[woody]

Miller rode the M10 for the first time in a UK trial the day after the British Experts in November 1964. The bike was his own development bike and wasn't available to the retail market until after January 1965, but I don't know where you could get what would be considered as conclusive proof of that.

However, the whole point of the cut-off date of 31st December 1964 for Pre65 trials was to exclude the Sherpa. When Pre65 started here in the UK, over 3 decades ago now, there were no 'modernised' bikes, so the Sherpa would have been just as far ahead of the British bikes in Classic trials as it was back in its own era. That date was chosen as a Sherpa wasn't available to buy before then so it didn't qualify and the idea was to have a British bike only series.

Ironic really, as now, a modernised Cub, James etc will run rings around a 60s or early 70s Sherpa

[b40rt]

Ironic really, as now, a modernised Cub, James etc will run rings around a 60s or early 70s Sherpa

Whenever I use the word "modernised," my automatic spell checker changes it to cheat !

[martinm]

Miller rode the M10 for the first time in a UK trial the day after the British Experts in November 1964. The bike was his own development bike and wasn't available to the retail market until after January 1965, but I don't know where you could get what would be considered as conclusive proof of that.

According to the DVLA website, Miller's Bultaco 669NHO was first registered 26.11.1964.

So....the fact it was built pre65 and used in a trial pre65....surely makes it qulaify. If you use the arguement that it was not available to the general public, then in theory most of the BSA Bantam/B40's should be not be eligible either, as they were only produced as a road bike (with the exception of the rigid D1 competition !!)

Martin

[woody]

So....the fact it was built pre65 and used in a trial pre65....surely makes it qulaify. If you use the arguement that it was not available to the general public, then in theory most of the BSA Bantam/B40's should be not be eligible either, as they were only produced as a road bike (with the exception of the rigid D1 competition !!)

Martin

So, so true... Yes, it was definitely a 1964 bike as he rode it in a Midland centre trial the day after the British Experts on the Ariel. The 'Experts' trial is long gone but our centre trial is still going.

Never have understood that 'available to the public' thing. If they had wanted to exclude the Bultaco all they had to do was call it Pre65 British Bike class, or Pre70 or whatever.

[totalshell]

to quote from'historia de la sherpa T' interest led to Oriel Puig Bulto and tom Ollerton entered the 1964 ssdt on sherpa N. the following year miller famously built /much modified the N on which he competed in mid november. orders were taken in the december for bikes. they are listed as in production 64 -67. they were certainly imported by Rickmans in 65.

my solution would be rather to prove the bike is ineligble would be to ask the competitor to prove it is eligble.

[wayne_weedon]

I wonder how many Tralla, Metralla, Campera, Sherpa N models etc etc which were all earlier Bultaco models 59-64 and some still made into the 70's were actually modified and trialed during the contentious period. Probably some....

Same with Montesa and Ossa. I've fairly recently seen a couple of rather nice looking trialised Impala's and one 160cc Ossa around the net, all fairly modern conversions though. In my eyes far more interesting than say a Trial Bantam or the overly popular cubs.

Wayne....

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's,

This is Dan Shorey on a Bultaco sherpa N that was available before 1965, 1961-2 in fact, and we converted it into a trials bike. Dont forget that it was him that put Sam onto Bultaco. Sam coming to Banbury to try the bike in secret, before he signed for them.

Regards Charlie.

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's

Hi Roger,

Doing a bit of research I would say radial finned M10 not available until late 1965. Conformation will be difficult as only seems to be old photos to go on, unless our Spanish cousins come up with the goods.

Regards Charlie.

PS Contacted Chris will mail you.

[sparks2]

Hi Guy's

Hi Roger,

Doing a bit of research I would say radial finned M10 not available until late 1965. Conformation will be difficult as only seems to be old photos to go on, unless our Spanish cousins come up with the goods.

Regards Charlie.

PS Contacted Chris will mail you.

Hi

I believe the M10 4 speed Sherpa was not generally available to the public until late March/April 1965.

Some were ridden (including Reg May) in the 1965 Scottish 6 Days.

The first production Montesa Cota 247 trials bikes were available to the public in August 1968.

Kind Regards

Sparks2

Edited April 1, 2010 by sparks2

[twinshock]

Twinshock again

When I was riding through the sixties in the Midland centre I kept a scrap book with results from the MCN that I competed in (Good results that is)

I have finally found that book after numerous house moves and it tells me that Woody might have his dates wrong.

The year that Sam rode the Bultaco in a Midland centre trial (the Severn Valley Trial) after competing in the British Experts the previous day was in fact Sunday Nov 28th 1965, not 1964.The cutting of the Motorcycle News has the date printed on the part I cut out !!

I have numerous results lists that show when Midland centre riders were competing on British BSA's, Cubs Villiers, FB's James etc etc during 1964 and then suddenly the likes of Brian Barnsley, Bill Price, MW Taylor, Dick Hearne, John Grazier and a whole heap of others in 1965 started turning out on the Bultaco's.

I would love to see a comment from the Man himself or from someone who worked for the importers who could finally tell the facts on this discussion topic.

I'm feeding your comments back into the Aussie website as there are a lot of people interested over here.

Cheers

Twinshock

[woody]

The trial that he first competed on using the Bultaco was the Kings Norton trial in 1964 (Severn Valley trial has always been a Bewdley trial as far back as I can remember, but I was only 5 in '64 and only knew about scrambling on Grandstand back then....)

Obviously, my info is only based on what I've read over the years. His contract with Ariel finished with the British Experts in 1964, he'd signed with Bultaco to begin riding immediately afterwards and had been developing the Sherpa T from the Sherpa N beforehand (in 12 days it's reckined) Hence the next trial he rode was the day after the Experts, the Kings Norton event.

It's reckoned that the people didn't really take notice of the Bulto until he won the SSDT in 1965, then everyone wanted one.

This coming weekend, we have the first of the Miller sponsored classic championship rounds andthe man himself is usually there. If he is I'll see if I can get a definitive answer from him. However, as mentioned before, the whole point of the pre65 class over here was to exclude the Bultaco.

[big john]

According to the DVLA website, Miller's Bultaco 669NHO was first registered 26.11.1964.

So....the fact it was built pre65 and used in a trial pre65....surely makes it qulaify. If you use the arguement that it was not available to the general public, then in theory most of the BSA Bantam/B40's should be not be eligible either, as they were only produced as a road bike (with the exception of the rigid D1 competition !!)

Martin

Can't agree, 669NHO was a development/experimental machine and production versions were not available until 1965. That is why the class is called Pre-65!

The Sherpa N was basically a trail bike which was converted to trials by Dan Shorey.

I also know that a Bultaco machine was indeed ridden in the SSDT well before 1965, I know Tommy Ollerton rode one in particular but certainly not a Model 10 (Sammy Miller).

Big John

[wayne_weedon]

I also know that a Bultaco machine was indeed ridden in the SSDT well before 1965, I know Tommy Ollerton rode one in particular but certainly not a Model 10 (Sammy Miller).

Yes pretty much impossible to have been a Model 10. The brand was only 6 years old by 65 so not many other models to choose from!

Wayne....

[sparks2]

Hi

I have an original copy of Motor Cycle News dated 2nd December 1964 in front of me now.

On the front page the main headline and following story reads as follows:-

'MILLER'S WINNERS'

'Exit the Ariel - Enter the Bultaco'

Sammy Miller and his new Bultaco are winners first time out !

After a superb win at Saturday's British Experts Trial, when he rode his 500 Ariel for the last time, he won his first event

on a 250 Bultaco on Sunday.

Miller made a suprise appearance as a last minute entrant for a Kings Norton club trial in the Cotwolds. And despite being over-geared

he beat his nearest rival, Mike Winwood (250 BSA) by 13 marks.

"It's the greatest thing since sliced bread", he joked, full of enthusiasm for his ultra-light (205lbs) Spanish two-stroke.

In Wales the previous day, Sammy Miller capped six glorious years with his famous Ariel, winning the Experts' Skefco Gold Cup

for a third time by a margin of five marks. Runner-up was Gordon Adsett (250 Greeves). But Tony Davis, also a Greeves rider,

put up the best show of the day, losing two marks fewer than Miller. Unfortunately, Davis was excluded for changing machines after the start.

Ron Langston and his passenger Doug Cooper (500 Ariel) scored a third successive Experts sidecar win after a long duel with Ken and Des Kendall

(500 Ariel Kenman) who they defeated by 8 marks.

(Story ends)

I bet everyone has forgotten about Tony Davis 'winning' then being excluded for changing machines.

Is it too late for a 'Re-instate Tony Davis' campaign?

Seriously though, I stand by my opinion that the M10 was not available to the public until April 1965. However, it probably then sold like hot cakes.

Many of the early Bultacos I remember were 'C' registered (ie registered in 1965).

Regards

Sparks2

Edited March 22, 2010 by sparks2