Observers

[chewy]

Observers we just can't have trials without them. Having run a very successful club trial over the weekend with lots of help from club members albeit the usual suspects, the most vexing problem (I think thats called an issue nowadays) was to find willing observers, we had 77 entries, half an acre of ground, 10 sections, 3 routes plus a mix and match for what we class as clubman experts..... and by start time with 77 riders revving up and itching to go 5 observers. As COC I circulated for first lap filling in and persuading some of the many friends & families of riders to take a board/section. We got there in the end and I then went around offering "comfort breaks" to our observers. Incidentally we as a club give our observers a fiver ( as a thank you... have a drink gesture) which can't possibly be an incentive to stand out for hours marking but it eases our consciences. Most clubs or centres can usually count on a few regulars and phone around etc. the same phone calls to the same people for the same reason. Having been through it all again I got to trying to come up with a scheme to get riders involved and responsible. The first idignant reaction was to think of compulsion...but this would have to be a national scheme with no exeptions and no excuses... something like nine rides ACU card punched by event sec.at sighning on.. then no more rides until tenth punch or mark for observing or providing an observer is put on the card..... heavy hand of officialdom came to mind and that never seems to work. Usual way to manipulate people to do what you want (need in this case) is to provide positive incentives for co operation so my question is how does your club manage? what would get riders more involved in organising thier own sport/pleasure? There are 101 side discussions on this topic regarding why it is so difficult but I am looking for solutions to problem as they are not as they were or could or should be. Any good ideas not including just putting the boards on the sections.????????????????????????

[pete_scorpa3]

I offer a free entry to any rider who provides an observer, this doesn't attract that many extra observers in itself, but it does make it easier for me to approach people at 5 to start time, begging then to do me a favour.

I really try not to get annoyed at people who hide in their cars until after the trial starts so as to avoid being asked to obseve, although it does niggle me when they suddenly appear once the last obsever is found!

We are lucky in that we have a regular core of observers who always turn out, these people are rewarded (if you can call it that) with a chocolate bar and a drink and at out National trials they are also given a

[totalshell]

clearly the number of people volunteering without been asked is insuffcient so some incentive is required. Hilary pointed out some time ago the money that was been 'made' by clubs and this surely should be spent to ensure a days sport takes place.

Hilary spoke of boxes of biscuits from M&S ( other biscuits are available) in posts above i see

[chewy]

I think both you guys are aware of the difficulty and frustration. I know of a club (amca) I think who pay

[telecat]

It's a difficult area. I usually get approached at Club and Novice Trials and the majority I can do. I have noticed tho that at a num ber of clubs they are offering a raised financial incentive this year. The Problem being that the quality appears to have suffered. At a recent trial we were chatting to a rider who reckoned he's dropped a couple of fives which never showed up on the scores.

[twinshock]

G'day

This is a problem that is world wide and we have it at every trial we run over here in Queensland Australia.

We run small club trials on private property with 35/45 riders with usually 4 laps of 10 sections. We are lucky if we get 4 or 5 observers but the way we get around it is by picking 2 or 3 riders from the start list and tell them they are looking after section 4 between them and so on till all sections are covered. The names are at random so that we avoid mates observing mates.

Coming up we have a two day open event for all riders with a Motorcycling Australia licence (Aussie equivalent to ACU)and at this point we seem to have all sections covered with an observer but we will do the same thing again by pulling names out of a hat to observe if required, riders seem to accept it ok

We always put an observers bag on each section containing water, fruit and a packet of chips or mueseli bar and at the end of an open event we give observers a little gift which seems to go down well.

Can you imagine, our season is just starting and we have had two events so far with temperatures of around 30C for each event our observers can easily get heat stroke and dehydration, mind you, yours could freeze to death.

Anyway thats my two bobs worth

Cheers

Twinshock

(yes its me from the Pre 65 Bultaco M10 forum)

[svleigh]

just my 2p.....

We have a set of regular observers that turn up week in week out in all manner weather so I can enjoy my favourite hobby, and for that I can't thank them enough.

Saying that, we're often one or two observers short for the trial to commence and often it's a rider or two that has to give up their ride for the day. There are many reasons for the lack of observers but the one thing that bugs me is where a rider tries to "persuade" an observer to change a score in an un-gentlemanly fashion. Thus, possibly putting off a helpfull volunteer from observing again, especially if the observer is young of age. Sometimes the fun element of the sport is being missed by folk and that competitive streak over-rules better judgement.

I make it my mantra to thank every observer at trial on my last lap, I think the majority or riders do so as well. Wether it's

Edited March 31, 2010 by SVLeigh

[fbrad]

9 out of 10 of local clubs i ride at will be lucky to get a couple of observers, i rode at a trial on sunday and they only had 3 observers so they opened 3 sections at a time this made it probably the worst trial ive ever been to.

it would of been a better trial just marking ourselves, i might be wrong but i dont think many people would cheat anyway

I think if you havent got enough observers riders should be made to go round in groups of three 1 beg 1 nov 1 exp and you mark each others scores.

if i went to a trial and i was told i had to observe id go somewhere else this may sound selfish but i go for a day out on the bike observers or no observers .

Frank

[manwithtool]

At our club (Berkhamsted MCC) we have over 300 members mainly as a result of having a nice little practice ground. We make it mart of the rules that each member has to observe once each year, (I think this can slip into a second year). This means we have a committe member responsible for getting the members to observe. As you can imagine I'd guess out of the 300 members probably only 100 ride in events, so most need some training in observing. We provide this 2 or 3 times a year as well. Despite all of this effort and planning we still sometimes end up 1 or 2 observers short. Luckily we also have this hard core of regulars that often step in and make the trial possible. We supply a "goody" bag with food and drink and also a

[cherrybear]

Although I havent ridden for 10 years this is a problem that was around when I started 30 years ago, certainly at club level. It seems to me that the problem is there are not enough riders at club events to raise 10 observers.

One of the clubs I rode with had some events with no observers, just a punch hanging on a tree and you punched your own card. There was a bit of lenient marking but those who always won still won. Anyone who cheats is only cheating themselves.

Grouping riders at club events to mark themselves can only be a good for the less experienced riders to learn from the experts.

Why does no one volunteer?

Multi route sections? Surely at club level there can only be two routes at the most, easy and hard. If the Experts want some practice go and ride hard events. The club trials are to have fun or learn.

Argumentative riders? I have seen riders argue the toss over a mark at club trials. Saw a guy who was in an absolute rage over a mark lost. If I had been the observer I would have walked off and left the section even if it ruined the day for the rest of the riders. Over the years I have been the victim of harsh decisions but on the other hand got away with a few. All evens out at the end of the day. Always thanked the observers at the end of the trial.

Not sure there is a definitive answer to the problem besides make the riders observe now and again or mark themselves.

[paul w]

At a recent trial we were chatting to a rider who reckoned he's dropped a couple of fives which never showed up on the scores.

thats funny cos i think i got them on sunday! your right about the quality, but its hard to criticise anyone for doing the job. I do however think its only right and fair to put something back, last year i observed at a handfull of trials , lots of banter, ok i lost a ride, but it meant that everone else got one. I suppose it depends on what you want for motivation, perhaps a tenner, or what about if its club champs some sort of points advantage? just a thought.

[b40rt]

Every observer has to put up with a bit of hassle at one time or another.

Why not go back to the score card with instant exclusion for asking what you dropped !

Seems a bit draconian I know, but I have personally seen virtually all the top (pre65) riders getting off with marks / 5's

purely because it would be to much of a hassle / spoil the observers day to give the correct mark.

I don't really expect any response to this by the way.

Edited April 1, 2010 by B40RT

[chewy]

I'm reaching the conclusion that something should be put in the regs. I'd like to go down the points/benifit route but it wouldn't really be fair competition. Maybe just a line to say that in the absence of volunteer observers the boards will be put on the sections and riders will have to do it for themselves. Even more unreliable results will follow but at least it will have been the riders choice. It's just a crying shame that an event such as I described at the outset of this topic with 77 entries can't "atract" just 10 observers. I will like many continue to set out trials etc. but I will not /can not be responsible for finding observers even those potentials hiding in back of van/car/late arrival/have to leave early/need to carry drink bottle/havn't got a brolly/simply don't want to/whatever the reason it MUST FALL TO THE RIDERS TO HELP THEMSELVES BY THINKING AHEAD AND PERSUADING SOMEBODY TO SUPPORT THEM IN A PRACTICAL WAY...observing.

[fivemeister]

This is a problem in trials as long as I can remember. I rode one trial where a group of around eight of us rode together and took turns observing the group. First through section one rode to the next section, examined it for riding then picked up the board to observe the group through as they arrived and so forth. With a group that size riding together it was a good crack and little chance of cheating - especially if the group has been randomly chosen. Good way of making new mates too.

The marking is likely to be spot on too as all the riders know the rules and with the whole group are mostly present and watching for correct and even application of the rules.

Edited March 31, 2010 by Fivemeister

[wri5hty]

I wouldn't bet on that fivemeister i once rode a trial where 1 section had to be observed by the riders. i lashed round the first lap and rode the section on the second then took the board, it was bloody ages before anyone offered to take it off me. so belted round the remainder of the trial and went straight back too finish off the observing after last man through i took the time to total up all the scores to find someone had been awarded a 4 on 1 lap.

Edited March 31, 2010 by wri5hty