Pre-65 Rules!

[raga-rep]

Hello all

Why do we have this so called pre 65 rule book which i hear quoted at every trial when clearly most of the bikes do not fit within the so called rules! Mcdonald cubs that do look the bizness and brand new dots that are 2010 made..how are they pre-65? frames are nothing like the originals front loops. there not meant to be altered are they. but all the trails i have been to recently the organisers havnt battered an eyelid. it seems ok to run these trick extra light engineering genious machines..but its not pre 65.

How do the dots get into the scotish? there not pre 65/67. Am i loosing the plot bringing this up does anyone else seem to be bothered this all happens at pre 65 events now. it seems to have gone outside the rules now no one seems that bothered about it. no one checks the bikes at events before the riders go off to the sections. you could run what you like.

Last week was at the most excelent Exmoor 3 day classic trial but now seems to be more twinshock then it is classic pre 65.. where riders blatlenty swap bikes for different days. run pre 65 bikes with modern forks and carbs with out hiding the mods on forks and frames ect.

I am a Modern and pre 65 rider and have ridden pre 65 for quite a few years on and off mainly Triumph cubs and 3ta`s with original frames and amal carbs ect.. the only mods i have done are pvl ignition and modern front forks hiden in norton sliders. but other then that it has had no more done to it..its pretty original and with in the rules..but now i realise it not competive enough to compete against the trick bikes..can get close but have to work bloody hard.

Have these bikes gone to far and is anyone actualy going to regulate these bikes and events??????

[twinshockdude]

bolting horses and stable doors spring to mind !!!

twinshock is going exactly the same way.

[totalshell]

Its clear that some clubs and events have clear and freely available rules and others less so. the real issue is whay are the rules not enforced. For the answer you probably have to go back to p65 origins when old brit trials irons (4T) were dragged from sheds across britain. the emphasis was on oily old bikes that the fun was in riding by blokes who rode them back in the day.

in the intervening years. many of those same blokes retired and now draw attactive pensions with little else to spend it on. skilled enginneers found them selves retired with time on thier hands and older former 'works' and ' former' national standard riders found themselves spending time with thier old buddies who lavished time and money making the bike better.

15/20 years on the baton is now being carried by much younger men ( brought up on a diet of twinshocks) who are demanding twinshock standard sections and 'P65@ bikes capable of tackling them. of course a sprinkling of excellent enginners and riders from the old guard remain and theyhave not stood still in thier bike development.

so why arent rules 'enforced'? well clubs are run by and for thier members and they must like what direction the sport is moving and so things move forward.

The club i am a member of has robust rules but bikes in the spirit of are not turned away although many riders have been the subject of ' a quiet word in the ear'

Edited April 10, 2010 by totalshell

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's

The problem with "This Pre 65 thing" is There are no Single set of rules in this country, or any other that every one agrees to, or abides by. Clubs make up there own rules, and then some other clubs copy them, etc, and that's how it goes on And we all know that everything modern is hidden beneath a skin of steel and alloy, and the only thing you can say is, A bike should look and sound like a machine built before this magical cut of point December 1964, at a distance of ten paces.

If you start saying,as one example! "Well you can't ride mate",the pinch bolts are in the wrong place for a bike built before 1965, and then say to the next Guy, your bikes alright mate cos you have used Montesa yokes and the bolts are in the right place, and you have made an half decent job of hiding the Mont's forks in them BSA legs so you can ride in the pre 65 class. but the other bloke will have to ride with the specials. You would have thought he would have done the fork mod. First bloke gets teed off and leaves is bike firmly in the back of the shed for the next trial and then finds another hobby. Diminished numbers!!!

I have come up with my own formula on the BSA Otter web site http://www.bsaotter.com/ and we will use it when we run our own trials.

Regards Charlie.

[motomike]

Hi Lads

Part of the problem is the dates, pre 65 means different thing to different people,depending on what they are trying to get accepted,

pre 65 should mean up to Dec 1964,but some think a 1965 is ok ?

there is a case for having another class say pre 68 or 70,as this would let in alot of interesting bikes,many of the villiers engined kit bikes,sprite ,elstar,cheetah ,etc

plus other bikes like comerford cub, comerford B25,cotton minarelli,greeves anglian,greeves pathfinder and many more,but of course early spanish as well.

and where are all the big pre unit, pre 65 bikes,at one time this was the bike to have and the premier class in pre 65, but most of the big bike riders are now on cubs and dots etc, (shame realy )

Also there are now younger people riding that other than what they read,realy dont know what is period and what is not.

[pete_scorpa3]

As Clerk of the Course over the last five or six years of the Stratford round Sammy Miller championship in May, the subject of forks, ignitions and carbs comes up every year (It would come up at every club meeting if we let it!) not to mention less obvious modifications that often appear.

Just finding someone who knows the rules who is prepared to check every machine as it starts the trial is a major problem, never mind the fall out after. It does make me wonder if it is worth the effort. Many of the classes have less than five entries and setting out a 35 dual route section road trial is a lot of work.

Previously I've made a concious effort to keep the sections within the spirt of the event and not to fall into the trap of making everything harder and tighter, last year we had a good entry and some worthy winners but we often find that a number of classes are decided on the one timed special test rather than on marks lost. Not ideal but what else can we do? Enforce the (rather vague) rules and exclude a percentage of riders or make the trial harder and put many off entering.

I've stood down as Clerk of the Course this year as I find that trying to please everyone is just too frustrating.

Pete

[old trials fanatic]

Firstly there isnt a rule book.

Secondly who is going to enforce it if there was one?

Thirdly we have had this discussion over and over ad infinitum. THERE ARE NO REAL PRE 65 BIKES OUT THERE !!! The tyres are not made any more neither are the shocks. Do you want to scrap your Renthals ? fit non teflon lined cables use "period oils".

Could you actually afford a period Belstaff ????????????

Pointless though slightly interesting discussion.

Makes me laugh that even some "strict" clubs, yeah right, allow Cubs to run with Delorto carbs but nothing else can.

Just enjoy it for what it is. At least the entrants are developing their machines as we all did back then. Sadly a vocation lost to the modern brigade who just buy a new bike every six months and probably wouldnt know a drain plug from a spark plug.

Sorry to have a rant but i really truthfully dont see the problem.

[rogerroger]

Here, Here!