chrisb583 Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Hello iam wondering if anyone is able to help me with regards to a ongoing problem with my 2004 125cc Sherco. Not long ago i had a problem with the bike not getting a spark , upon finding this forum i was given a list of figure in which to test the Stator plate ................... to this end i realsised the plate was faulty.Upon finding this i went and bought a re-furbished one and the bike ran for a maximum of 3hours !!!!! On testing the Stator plate readings again i found the first 3 readings .. i,e (red cable to lead , black to earth) all flickered slightly then came up as a Error reading on my meter ???? This is where my new problem lies ........... i have just bought a brand new one !!! (Not a refuburbished one) however before messing about fitting the new plate i first tested it using my meter and yet again the reading for the first test (which i belive to be the main problem with these stators) It flickered with a reading then straight to ERROR !!!!!! Just for your info all the other readings came within the recommended figures and i have tried it using too different meters to make sure . Is this just bad luck and it is a faulty plate or something im not getting right with the readings . i,e does it flicker and come up with error or should it stay a soild figure like all the other ones ??? Your help is welcome i feel like iam banging my head off a brick wall with this at the minute !!! Thanks Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted April 10, 2010 Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 (edited) Hmmm..... OK if I have this right both new and old stators have the same readings on the same wires (including the flicker/Error)....and you got exactly the same results with another digital meter.....correct??...I hope it was a different type of meter too? Lets assume the new stator is working OK. Did you buy it from a local Sherco dealer?...if so, if you don't fit it you should be able to return it for a credit note at least. If it was me I'd get a new plug and start testing again. Where possible swapping suspect parts with others I could get my hands on.....Look for that spark in a dark room.....and make sure the the side of the plug is held firmly on an unpainted engine bolt or something. Failing that are you brave enough to try this?.....Take the plug out of the engine...stick your finger all the way up inside the rubber spark plug cap and gently wind over the kick start with your other hand ....yes if it's working you will get a shock....but it will only sting your finger.....and at least you'll know there is some current there. The other tactic is to take you the stator and your bike to your dealer...and pay him to fix it.....just depends on how important or how frustrating this situation is to you. Best of balance. Neo Edited April 10, 2010 by Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisb583 Posted April 10, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2010 Hmmm.....OK if I have this right both new and old stators have the same readings on the same wires (including the flicker/Error)....and you got exactly the same results with another digital meter.....correct??...I hope it was a different type of meter too? Lets assume the new stator is working OK. Did you buy it from a local Sherco dealer?...if so, if you don't fit it you should be able to return it for a credit note at least. If it was me I'd get a new plug and start testing again. Where possible swapping suspect parts with others I could get my hands on.....Look for that spark in a dark room.....and make sure the the side of the plug is held firmly on an unpainted engine bolt or something. Failing that are you brave enough to try this?.....Take the plug out of the engine...stick your finger all the way up inside the rubber spark plug cap and gently wind over the kick start with your other hand ....yes if it's working you will get a shock....but it will only sting your finger.....and at least you'll know there is some current there. The other tactic is to take you the stator and your bike to your dealer...and pay him to fix it.....just depends on how important or how frustrating this situation is to you. Best of balance. Neo Thanks for your comment Neo (and Sarcasim) This is a real problem and yes i have tried changing spark plug and even got a magnifing glass out to check for a spark !! (that help!) and still no spark (even with changing plug) that was on old plate !! like i have said im not risking it after spending alot on yet another plate ??? I have the reciept for new plate but your missing my point on the readings etc ??? should i be getting solid reading on the meter etc and yes i have tried a few meters as already said in my post ??? Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 I will tell you now that most inexpensive digital meters will not read accurately at high resistances, therefore your error readings. Mine does the same even on the working bike, and I have not tried my best Fluke meter on them, but if you are trying for 3-7 meg ohm reads whit crap, forget about it! I am not sure even which ignition you are dealing with as you did not state. Is it Leonelli? Ck your connections and try another CDI first, then go back to your stator if you don't want to send it off to Bradfords for testing. In there somewhere is the ironic truth! No sarcasm here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Failing that are you brave enough to try this?.....Take the plug out of the engine...stick your finger all the way up inside the rubber spark plug cap and gently wind over the kick start with your other hand ....yes if it's working you will get a shock....but it will only sting your finger.....and at least you'll know there is some current there. If you are referring to this, honestly I'm not being sarcastic I'm telling you this because it's a really great test!! Firstly unless you have a really weak heart it ain't that dangerous....I've taken the full pelt of a 6 cylinder running engine a few times and it's not that big a deal. The voltage is high but the current is very low. Meaning there's not really is enough energy to burn or injure you and it will only be one quick pulse before you stop. Secondly and more importantly, if you get a shock it will prove that there is an active circuit in place but the voltage is not high enough to jump the spark plug gap....try checking that with your digital meter...you can't....it's too fast. And by my reckoning the shock will prove that you have a problem in either the CDI or the Stator and any possible wiring problems are eliminated......Honestly it won't be the big deal you think it will be. Best of balance. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 If you are referring to this, honestly I'm not being sarcastic I'm telling you this because it's a really great test!!Firstly unless you have a really weak heart it ain't that dangerous....I've taken the full pelt of a 6 cylinder running engine a few times and it's not that big a deal. The voltage is high but the current is very low. Meaning there's not really is enough energy to burn or injure you and it will only be one quick pulse before you stop. Secondly and more importantly, if you get a shock it will prove that there is an active circuit in place but the voltage is not high enough to jump the spark plug gap....try checking that with your digital meter...you can't....it's too fast. And by my reckoning the shock will prove that you have a problem in either the CDI or the Stator and any possible wiring problems are eliminated......Honestly it won't be the big deal you think it will be. Best of balance. Neo Did Steve irwin live near you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Did Steve irwin live near you? I was thinking along the same lines:- Neo , you told me to jam my wood in my primary gear and now you're advising electro-shock therapy! I bet you've got your own personal dungeon at home ,what next?..Michael Hutchence Windsor-Knot for stress relief? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stork955 Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 Gday, I have a Sherco with a Leonelli here at the moment, which its owner suspected has no spark. We tested it with one of these - http://www.toolfetch.com/Category/Automoti...rs/LIS20610.htm and it proved that spark was present. We couldnt see it by removing the plug etc. I havent solved the bike not running issue yet, but it may be worthwhile getting one of these. Its easy and safe, and you will have it your toolbox for ever. Cheers, Stork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted April 11, 2010 Report Share Posted April 11, 2010 (edited) Did Steve irwin live near you? Neo , you told me to jam my wood in my primary gear and now you're advising electro-shock therapy!I bet you've got your own personal dungeon at home ,what next?..Michael Hutchence Windsor-Knot for stress relief? What a bunch of pussy cats you UK guys are ....One of the reasons I emigrated 19 years ago. Steve Irwin didn't need to live near me to appreciate that he had some practical guts and didn't spend his life worrying about what might sting him next. Avoiding the sakes and spiders in life doesn't allow you to appreciate just how fantastic they are. And when you work with ignition systems a lot....you get a shock every now and then....it's not that big a deal! Having said all this ....Chrisb go with the device that Stork suggested....it's bloody good advice. Best of balance. Neo Edited April 11, 2010 by Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 It is not really that difficult to see spark on these things! The primary reason is that most are looking at a plug with a narrow gap at somewhere between .5 and .6mm, which makes it hard to see, specially in daylight. The damn things should throw spark more than 5-6 mm in free air, and will! If it will not, then you have a problem! Can easily be seen in a darker enviroment. This is all related to air density. As air is a natural resistor. So let us say for example that the motor has a compression ratio of 10:1. The ignition must at least be able to spark at ten times the gap in free air or it will not work under compression at ten times the electrical resistance induced by the increased density of the air, all relative here. Take an old car plug and spread the electrodes wide at 3-4mm and install a good grounding clamp on it, it is only half a test, yet still works! BTW, I have run the mon resistor VX plug at .7mm for years now, which tells me that they will throw spark for 8mm at least, because it has never failed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stork955 Posted April 12, 2010 Report Share Posted April 12, 2010 Gday, you can buy spark testers like Cope's description too. Or make one, no more than a 5-6 mm air gap though. Any of these is fine and the best way to test an ignition system. Too big a gap or a poor engine ground as with testing the "old" way can actually damage ignition components that were OK prior to the test... By the way, the Sherco I have here had a stuck float needle. carb was as dry as a dry thing. The needle had stuck right into the seat. The Dellorto needles do seem a bit soft on the end. Cheers, Stork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Gday, you can buy spark testers like Cope's description too. Or make one, no more than a 5-6 mm air gap though. Any of these is fine and the best way to test an ignition system. Too big a gap or a poor engine ground as with testing the "old" way can actually damage ignition components that were OK prior to the test... By the way, the Sherco I have here had a stuck float needle. carb was as dry as a dry thing. The needle had stuck right into the seat. The Dellorto needles do seem a bit soft on the end. Cheers, Stork Mmm, wonder if it was the black tip on the needle in that year? May be effected by the alcohol in the fuel? Understand the new ones are coming with the Viton tips(brown) to combat this. Seems the possibilty exhists of the alcohol eventually eating up all the old nitrile components in everything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Mmm, wonder if it was the black tip on the needle in that year? May be effected by the alcohol in the fuel? Understand the new ones are coming with the Viton tips(brown) to combat this. Seems the possibilty exhists of the alcohol eventually eating up all the old nitrile components in everything? Good point Cope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stork955 Posted April 14, 2010 Report Share Posted April 14, 2010 Gday Cope, this bike has a brown tip in it. I cant ever remember having an issue with a black tip one. Weird... Anyway, how did your testing go Chris? Cheers, Stork Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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