nigel dabster Posted April 15, 2010 Report Share Posted April 15, 2010 Correct me if I am wrong here Dabster, but do not these top guys get to spend the afternoon prior to the event on section inspection along with grooming? Filing their complaints and whatever if they feel it unsafe?Day of trial things do need to move along, dicking about with the top riders on the first loop and playing the waiting game is indeed a bit of gamesmanship, yet at the same time, they already have it down, just waiting for others to go first! They can see what they need from the boundry. Eyes like eagles these guys! Memory like it too! Wonder still about the minders/ catchers in the sections though? yep section "inspection" the day before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 15, 2010 Report Share Posted April 15, 2010 definitive list here http://www.fim-live.com/en/sport/official-...nd-regulations/ no mention of minders or section inspection prohibited? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phb Posted April 15, 2010 Report Share Posted April 15, 2010 ..........if it were true, minders will still be in the sections surely for the riders saftey? not sure what you are trying to say on this, have you ever observered at WTC ? i have at the last 3 Hawkstones so i have seen first hand what the riders/ minders and all other helpers try and get away with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 15, 2010 Report Share Posted April 15, 2010 not sure what you are trying to say on this, have you ever observered at WTC ? i have at the last 3 Hawkstones so i have seen first hand what the riders/ minders and all other helpers try and get away with. Yes I've observered every trick you have ten times over but the riders still need minders for the sections as far as catching is concerned. Besides minders are allowed unless you know different? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phb Posted April 15, 2010 Report Share Posted April 15, 2010 Yes I've observered every trick you have ten times over but the riders still need minders for the sections as far as catching is concerned.Besides minders are allowed unless you know different? yes i agree that if the section requires a minder then they should be allowed into the section, i was told that there was to be no observers allowed by the person in charge of organising the observers for the British round, but its up to the observer, if they dont think that a minder is needed in the section they dont have to allow them in, Myself i will make a judgement when i see my section, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddie_lejeune Posted April 15, 2010 Report Share Posted April 15, 2010 yes i agree that if the section requires a minder then they should be allowed into the section, i was told that there was to be no observers allowed by the person in charge of organising the observers for the British round, but its up to the observer, if they dont think that a minder is needed in the section they dont have to allow them in, Myself i will make a judgement when i see my section, Thats stupid, how are you or any other observer in a position to judge whether or not a rider needs a minder The top guys will be up things the others won't so are you going to let one guys minder in and anothers not? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted April 16, 2010 Report Share Posted April 16, 2010 yep section "inspection" the day before. Best I have seen, they get plenty of gardening in upon inspection day! Many times for good reason too! Yet day of trial, it is what it is as far as i figure. And honestly I would just as soon keep the minders out untill their rider is in the section and does not have leisure to dick about, just go in, do your thing and get out. All that cluster-uck of having a buttload of riders and minders in the sections when and even other riders are trying to get in is a bunch of crap! Hopefully they find a balance to it all, as they put a clip on all that here in the NATC as well. If a minder needs to pre-position himself in a critical area, fine and should be allowed by the section observers as well under their rule. Others need to GTF out! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 17, 2010 Report Share Posted April 17, 2010 Best I have seen, they get plenty of gardening in upon inspection day! Many times for good reason too! Yet day of trial, it is what it is as far as i figure. And honestly I would just as soon keep the minders out untill their rider is in the section and does not have leisure to dick about, just go in, do your thing and get out.All that cluster-uck of having a buttload of riders and minders in the sections when and even other riders are trying to get in is a bunch of crap! Hopefully they find a balance to it all, as they put a clip on all that here in the NATC as well. If a minder needs to pre-position himself in a critical area, fine and should be allowed by the section observers as well under their rule. Others need to GTF out! Alot of "gardening" in the sections today during inspection. The riders not allowed in the section was ok but there was a stand off at section one till they allwed minders to move within the section. watch this space! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wri5hty Posted April 17, 2010 Report Share Posted April 17, 2010 copemech has the best answer only allow the minders into the section when their rider is riding it. Fuji's crash at nord vue would of been a lot worse without someone there too catch the bike. organizers, clubs or ruling bodies couldn't assign the catchers, or we would never get tickets for all the no win no fee leaches handing out business cards waiting for the inevitable to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowbrow Posted April 18, 2010 Report Share Posted April 18, 2010 (edited) I await Nigel Dabster's first hand account of the trial and verdict on the new rules with great interest. A superficial scan of the results suggests to me that if it was the FIM's goal to narrow the gap between the best and the rest then this has not been an immediate success. If Michael Brown 5'd every section(?) I rest my case! Edited April 18, 2010 by Lowbrow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted April 18, 2010 Report Share Posted April 18, 2010 Indeed, someting must have been wrong for scores that high. Brown had 30 fives and Wiggy only 2 three,s! So what was it Weather? section difficulty? or the new tme limit? Good to hear a take on it from one of the guys who made it out to Spain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 19, 2010 Report Share Posted April 19, 2010 Indeed, someting must have been wrong for scores that high. Brown had 30 fives and Wiggy only 2 three,s! So what was it Weather? section difficulty? or the new tme limit?Good to hear a take on it from one of the guys who made it out to Spain. Sections generally were much too long and difficult, a good few would have been no different to last year. There seems to have been no concession to the "dynamic" element and little or no effort to avoid lining up positioning. Certainly very little concession to no riders in sections or minders. Section one had space to be flowing but was marked out tight so as to require flicking and rear wheel sideways alignment several times. Think with very little adjustments toni exited on 58 secs, similar time to the others. Unlike scarboro the weather was not to blame although the sections deteriorated (see junior scores). The bottom two routes had ridden these sections yesterday in the europeans, not so the top route. An early number was an advantage so putting Toni at the front was an advantage to him, think wiggy and Pune didn't see toni,raga or fuji ride more than one or two sections. Toni finished with maybe an hour to 90 mins to spare. Quite clearly there wasn't 30% easy sections as requested in the rules. Not too sure there was 30% medium either. I quote from an ex world champ " if this is trials I don't know what I have been doing for the last few years" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phb Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 Thats stupid, how are you or any other observer in a position to judge whether or not a rider needs a minderThe top guys will be up things the others won't so are you going to let one guys minder in and anothers not? as i said its not my decision to not allow minders into the section but i will make a judgement on the day, if there is any question of rider safety in a section then it will be a no brainer of allowing a minder/catcher. as observers we have to work within the rules set out by the governing body Minders / Team officals in section had got out of hand with way too many of them in the sections, so with a little sense by all this ruling can be worked with by allowing only 1 Minder in the section only when there rider is attempting it, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted April 20, 2010 Report Share Posted April 20, 2010 When the Fim make rule changes to the world championship trials events do they still send FIM officials out to make sure the rules can be correctly applied, new rule states the rider is allowed 1 minute to ride the section, but the sections were too long by all accounts, shouldn't this of been caught the day before the event. When I put on a world round the FIM official for that event spent the best part of a day walking all the sections with me correcting and tweaking any section that needed it, all his advice made a lot of sense and the event didn't have time or section difficulty problems with a good score spread and the easier, medium and hard sections that the FIM guidelines suggest. I don't know who the FIM official was for last weekend, but they obviously didn't do a very good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 21, 2010 Report Share Posted April 21, 2010 When the Fim make rule changes to the world championship trials events do they still send FIM officials out to make sure the rules can be correctly applied, new rule states the rider is allowed 1 minute to ride the section, but the sections were too long by all accounts, shouldn't this of been caught the day before the event.When I put on a world round the FIM official for that event spent the best part of a day walking all the sections with me correcting and tweaking any section that needed it, all his advice made a lot of sense and the event didn't have time or section difficulty problems with a good score spread and the easier, medium and hard sections that the FIM guidelines suggest. I don't know who the FIM official was for last weekend, but they obviously didn't do a very good job. Diego bosis I think was in charge of section inspection/alteration on the saturday, in his new role this year for the fim. the sections were shortened/eased but not enough. i would hope he has learned from last week. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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