neo Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 I was reading an MX mag the other day...while waiting for some new tyres to be fitted to my car. There was an article in this mag about which type of engine will be used in motorbikes in the future. I know in Trials most people have pretty much concluded that 2T makes sense but after debating all the in's and outs's the guy in the MX mag put his bets on 4T for MX. What's your opinion on this? Best of balance. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybmac Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 I think they'll have both. Cant really pick one or the other Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 I thought 4t was all about satisfying American Pollution laws (i understand 2t engines are not encouraged/allowed in USA) The noise "polution" of 4t compared to trials 2t is worth considering .Unlike the media many of us have noticed how clear the sky has been ober last few days compared to back to normaltoday ..they say that all the motor sport in UK in one season produces less pollution than one jumbo jet making one flight. A few trials bikes ain't going to make much difference!. 2t is best for me in most/all trials I do have owned both types because it's just easier to ride/ I di love owning the mont though great fun to ride. Coincidentally I was watching a video of Gas Gas 4t on you tube last night it looked like Tarres riding it and it looked ok and sounded like a bag of nails. I'll be sticking with 2t for forseeable future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petejohn Posted April 22, 2010 Report Share Posted April 22, 2010 Hi They tried useing 4t in mx in New Zealand. I think is was 125 2t 250 4t in the same class, with the 2t being faised out over a few years. Motorcycling New Zealand had to change their mind as the maintanance on the 4t was 3 or 4 times the cost of 2t. Not just piston and rings every 5 hours on the 4t puppys, and you need more technical knowledge Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Not quite right there petejohn, MNZ were running basic MX1 & 2 classes & because of this juniors could use either the 125 2stroke or 250 4stroke. As you can imagine it didn't take the parents/bill payers long to discover just how expensive the 250s are to maintain & to their horror when they try to get rid of the things there is no resale value. Those who did want to change back also came up against the problem of the japanese manufacturers not wanting to build 125s anymore due to the way honda got the rules set up for a 100% capacity advantage for 4strokes, for trials that doesn't exist even in the junior world champs. Just ask Jake how hard the TRW Mont was to ride compared to the 2strokes everyone else used, think it's a legal restriction for juniors to use 125s in europe My take on what type of engine we'll end up with is it depends on what it's being used for, in MX it will be 4stroke due to thats where the money is for the big 4-lots of expensive parts to replace often until the noise issue gets it canned altogether. Trials I can see staying with 2strokes now that the 4stroke only rule has apparently died, helps that most of the manufacturers are small european companies who can't afford the development costs of building a 4stroke,honda/montesa excluded KTM has said that they plan on sticking with making 2strokes for the foreseeable future & have noticed the swing back towards them, sounds like they have some more cards up their sleeves as far as future developement of the engine, probably fuel injection etc. Then again they also have their electric bike due for release Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for artie Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 most of the manufacturers are small european companies who can't afford the development costs of building a 4stroke,honda/montesa excluded Beta, Sherco, Scorpa and Gas Gas have all developed 4 strokes, or did I miss something? why does it have to be either 2T or 4T? why can't we have both? that seems to be what the market wants. If Euro emission laws ever catch up with the 2T trials manufacturers then it may just be the 4T that keep them in business. maybe the Ossa will be the first clean 2T and the others will have to follow the newcomer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Beta, Sherco, Scorpa and Gas Gas have all developed 4 strokes, or did I miss something But would you buy one ? NO Who now rides them other than the Hondas with the buget to input unlike the rest. The four strokes dead long live the the two stroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovintage Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 (edited) sadly we are stuck with 4T for MX they are faster than their 2T counterparts, (250 2T vs 450 4T and 125 2T vs 250 4T ) they are very trick and very expensive to repair & maintain. I am a professional motorcycle mechanic with over 20 years experience, I have seen a lot, you will NEVER see a 4T race or Trials bike in my garage. Edited April 23, 2010 by MotoVintage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightfeet Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 Funny really as I started out racing on club circuits road racing and the 2 strokes over a season cost a lot more to maintain than 4 stroke did. So suppose it depends on the sport really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
for artie Posted April 23, 2010 Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 (edited) it makes no sense to compare the life of a four stroke MX to a four stroke trials. there are lots of Honda RTL, TLR and TL four strokes that have been running for decades without ever having the head off. the most expensive trials bike to maintain is a certain lightweight two stroke. Edited April 23, 2010 by for artie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo Posted April 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted April 23, 2010 it makes no sense to compare the life of a four stroke MX to a four stroke trials. there are lots of Honda RTL, TLR and TL four strokes that have been running for decades without ever having the head off. the most expensive trials bike to maintain is a certain lightweight two stroke. That could be so. But I think it's complying to the manufactures maintenance schedule which sets the amount of maintenance (done by a mechanic) on new bikes....I think it's that cost that most people are referring to.sadly we are stuck with 4T for MX they are faster than their 2T counterparts, (250 2T vs 450 4T and 125 2T vs 250 4T ) they are very trick and very expensive to repair & maintain. I am a professional motorcycle mechanic with over 20 years experience, I have seen a lot, you will NEVER see a 4T race or Trials bike in my garage. Yes but will that change? It's my understanding that Fuel Injected 2T's have been proven to have lower emission's than 4T's ...If that's true and it stays like that (assuming we don''t all go electric) then the regulation in the US is bound to change eventually. Best of balance. Neo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 I think its kinda nice to have the variety. Its like when everyone rides the same kinda bike. Boring! It would be nice to keep having a choice, and for the 4Ts to keep advancing. I have ridden both, mostly 2Ts over the years, but nothing makes me smile like riding the 4t. Just my opinion, and I know I am in the minority. They both do things better or worse than the other for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tony27 Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 Beta, Sherco, Scorpa and Gas Gas have all developed 4 strokes, or did I miss something? Scorpa didn't develop a 4stroke, they just bought a yamaha wr250f engine & asked for some changes to be made Developing the 320 almost sent sherco under which is why it was rushed to the marketplace underdeveloped Beta probably had a hand from ktm & took their time, lucky for them the 4stroke only rule disappeared Has the gas gas been released yet or have they decided it's a dead duck? sadly we are stuck with 4T for MX they are faster than their 2T counterparts, (250 2T vs 450 4T and 125 2T vs 250 4T ) they are very trick and very expensive to repair & maintain. Big thing here is to be faster the rules say your engine can be twice the size if it's a 4stroke Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 there are lots of Honda RTL, TLR and TL four strokes that have been running for decades without ever having the head off I dont think the modern bikes will fair that well as they run alot tighter tolerances with lighter materials. MX fourstokes rev more than twostrokes and when they pop its big bucks. I raced enduro 4 and 2 strokes and the twostroke is way better all round. Lighter faster like for like and less maintenance no oil n filter change every 10 hours. No top uk riders use them now as they have all gone back to twostroke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted April 24, 2010 Report Share Posted April 24, 2010 No top uk riders use them now as they have all gone back to twostroke. Hi Smalley,are you talking enduro or trials here? Cheers, Wayne Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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