What Am I Doing Wrong?

[jonnybmac]

Bear in mind I have only been riding less than 3 months, but I'm struggling with these rocks.. I dont know If I'm attacknig it wrong, my body position is wrong or what, On the second one It was near perfect if I hit my brakes, I'm only attempting the 3 rocks and the forth up the top I've been avoiding so far until I get it right with this. I've tried and tried and cant seem to get it right, and I have a huge fear now of falling off and injuring myself doing it which makes it all the more as I have to swallow my bottle and just get on with it.

I've tried to give as many techniques as I could in some of the videos, practice different things, even put a few of my falloffs so you can see where I am gonig wrong. People who go up charltons will know what rocks these are, on the video it looks like theirs a kicker on the 3rd rock which isnt the case, I have to actually jump across which makes it harder as theres only a small lip I can hit, to the left is a straight drop and to the right its a little too far away to land it.

What I do is slowly ride up, slipping my clutch, I pop a wheelie slipping my clutch and ride up and have the back wheel onto the second rock, I disengage my clutch, add more revs then pop it back out again to get clearance to the third rock, I fail when I vear one way, or if I dont get enough distance to clear it, either going backwards after landing on the rock with a clash of my skidplate or because I've either misjudged the timing or I've leant back too much and its got the front end too high for me to manage.

Am I way beyond my reaches here in terms of skill of pulling this off? WOuld you say continue and learn it or give it a miss for a while? I've thrown myself in at the deep end, although I do practice sections for balance and stuff, I just struggle with rocks. I can get up single rocks or 5 foot pipes easy using a double blip, and it looks and feels controlled, I just struggle with making this one look anything but sloppy and uncrolled.

Am I aproaching it the wrong way, attacking it wrongly? Is my body position off?

I get the feeling I should come off the second rock slowly, so that im stationary with my front wheel planted on the third rock and my rear on the second, I just cant seem to grasp standing starts with my wheel up high already, is this something I should be practicing first? Is this even the correct technique or is the way I'm doing it already quite alright I just dont know.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated

[chewy]

There arn't too many of us to give sound advice but just to show a bit of interest (more then bound to follow); firstly after just 3 months I would say you're doing fantasticly well. second wish I had somewhere like that to practice. Best thing is to watch and importantly listen to good riders doing these things. It seems to me (belive me I aint qualified to advise!) that you're making a meal of getting into the section.... to much gas, legs a bit rigid and then you're fighting it for the next part of the section. Looking further ahead may also help with thr veering off bit. Why not break the section into bits and see how you can get onto/over the first bit by different combinations of throttle/legs/suspension "preload" . You need to get lined up for second bit (jump) with you and the bike in a neutral state ready and looking ahead. rather be there playing than sitting here.

[jonnybmac]

Theres only a real small line I can follow to land it the way Im doing, theres an edge that sticks out about a foor wide, to the left i a drop and too the right it slops too much and drifts away from where im taking off from. I add alot of gas at the start as everytime I've tried it slow I havnt had the momentum to get over the third bit, I've failed loads trying to smooth out that part

Thanks for the compliment too, I have abit of no fear when its came to learning, I find falling off and getting somewhere from it progress, especially when yopur riding with people who have been doing it years and still struggle on the same things as me

[cabby]

firstly after just 3 months I would say you're doing fantasticly well.

That's exactly what I was thinking, I've only been doing this sport about 2 months and no where near at that stage yet.

[cabby]

Thanks for the compliment too, I have abit of no fear when its came to learning, I find falling off and getting somewhere from it progress, especially when yopur riding with people who have been doing it years and still struggle on the same things as me

Ahh...you're the bloke who has almost replaced his whole bike recently

[shercojay]

shouldnt be long and i will be up at charltons, I take it your trying to stay on the back wheel ??? You need to pre load the rear shock to give you the bounce to the next rock. Shift your weight to the back of the bike and push down with your legs to hold the "pressure " of the wheelie

Thats the way I try and do it(see the word TRY )

[chewy]

the more I look at the vid the more I'm convinced you giving it too much gas too late (it may be a sound synchronisation thing). It's a common/normal thing for trials riders to give it a bit more speed in an attempt to get over an obstacle but from many many years of bitter experience it just makes you crash faster. To jump the gap you appear to be wasting drive space because you're arriving at top of first rocks in a bit of a "mess" you need legs/ gas (to make the rear suspension work for you) at this point. The "mess" of it is that you are simply following the bike at this point instead of giving it further "instruction" .Why not try it; slow it down....smaller throttle adjustments....just try to arrive in control it doesn't matter if you fail the section here or 5 foot further on in a heap it's still a fail, for practicing you have nothing to prove to anybody just experiment with techniques.

[tt5th]

Really really good for 3 months! Just need more practice, you're just a bit out of shape after landing on the second one which is stopping you getting a good run at the last one. Once you're confident enough to do one and two easily you'll be in better shape to do 3 if that makes sense. Concentrate on landing in the right place after 2, once thats sorted you can take step 3 on.

If you were feeling brave you could give a little hop on your back wheel just as you're leaving step 1 to help you over that gap. I'd keep my front end a bit lower as well to but don't listen to me as I'm not much better than you!

[jonnybmac]

thanks for the advice and kind words, going to try slowing it down abit as i do feel its out of control and hit and miss, which makes me worry ill carry more bruises than i already own! I think the sound and picture are out of sync abit, altho i do get told im to aggressive on rocks, i just cant seem to suss this one without the start speed i carry. Ill maybe get a spotter but its hard doing 1 and 2 without going for 3 due to the awkward gap ahead. Ive tried lowering my front but i end up nose diving the third or just not making it. Is 2nd the right gear to be in

[shercoman2k8]

Are they bike boots that you're wearing, or just hiking boots?

Anyway, the real point here isnt that.

Break the section into individual parts.

Part one

1) Start from where you start...

2) Creep forward, use more revs but continue to slip the clutch.

3) About one foot away from the first part of the obstical, dump the clutch completely, should give you a kick up onto it as if you were wheelying but easier to control.

[use only enough revs to give you a kick to the top of the obstical when the clutch is dumped, no more. Try to keep the wheel low, but still off the ground once up]

Part two

1) Quickly dump the clutch with quite a bit of throttle., and quickly yet powerfully load and unload the suspension... Move your weight right back and then forward as you launch. All about timing here, sure you can work it out. Remember to cover the brakes for when you clear the gap. You want to stop as close to the gap as possible. Could possibly put a small rock down to try and give you a little kick across the gap to begin with while you work on timing.

Keep trying this until its done, you dont need to stop completely at this part, you can roll slowly.

Part three

(I assume you want to get up onto the slab of rock that you keep falling before or going round)

1) Build the revs up, and dump the clutch again, preload the suspension and unload it quickly, pulling the front up with you so the bike is at more of a vertical posistion, and the wheel slams against the rock, once the rear seems to be at the top, touch the brake to bring the front down

If theres any parts you dont understand, just say... Having not been there before, its a bit hard to see what you're trying to do.

You may find it easier to keep under control in 1st to begin with, second on the sherco is quite a fast gear.

And remember, keep that brake covered!

Edited June 5, 2010 by shercoman2k8

[liviob]

It looks like you dont have your legs bent enough. Squat and flex your legs more. Also your weight is too far forward. Your relighing on the throttle to hold up the front wheel. Squat, Flex, and lean back more. It seems that your not using the suspension enough because of the straight leg technique. When you get to the top of the second rock hold pressure and quickly push into the suspension hard enough so that the bike will jump off the ground While blipping the throttle to launch the bike. Maybe yor bars are adjusted too far forward? Go to you tube and lookup Ryan Young videos. Or better yet Buy yourself a set of his DVD's.

In this video look at how the rider drops his knees to get over the rock.

Edited June 5, 2010 by Liviob

[wri5hty]

I am going too take a shot in the dark that you have NOT rode a trial yet? I am not saying that too be out of order so please don't take it the wrong way. but if i am right the first mistake you are making is only going to Charlton's, get out and ride a proper trial. you as a new starter would never be expected too ride them rocks in a centre trial. the lads you see making them look easy are experienced trials riders. you are trying far above what you need too for now. from what i have seen on the short video clips you ARE ready. enter any club trial on the b route. you are obviously a member of guisborough, please ride one of the summer series events they put on it will show you what you should be practicing, they are a good day out and you will meet a lot of good lads. please try not too become a slate rat (charlton's only users) get out and enjoy the sport there is some amazing land used for trials in the east yorks centre.

[copemech]

Looks to me basically what 2k8 was saying, as you need a bit of bunnyhop, so drop and load the rear then jump forward with a little rev and full pop, and land the front wheel on the 3rd rock and let the then unloaded rear follow.

[jonnybmac]

Ahh...you're the bloke who has almost replaced his whole bike recently

Indeed I have, and now you know why

the more I look at the vid the more I'm convinced you giving it too much gas too late (it may be a sound synchronisation thing). It's a common/normal thing for trials riders to give it a bit more speed in an attempt to get over an obstacle but from many many years of bitter experience it just makes you crash faster. To jump the gap you appear to be wasting drive space because you're arriving at top of first rocks in a bit of a "mess" you need legs/ gas (to make the rear suspension work for you) at this point. The "mess" of it is that you are simply following the bike at this point instead of giving it further "instruction" .Why not try it; slow it down....smaller throttle adjustments....just try to arrive in control it doesn't matter if you fail the section here or 5 foot further on in a heap it's still a fail, for practicing you have nothing to prove to anybody just experiment with techniques.

I think this is what I am doing wrong, I'm relying on the speed to work using the rocks as a ramp to get me over with a little aided push from me at the top, rather than slow and actually jumping the gap correctly. I just fear I wont make the gap, its kinda awkward due to the sloped first rock, having to stay on the rear wheel and still give enough but not too much to get over the gap, I guess this is what I need to think about and work on.

Really really good for 3 months! Just need more practice, you're just a bit out of shape after landing on the second one which is stopping you getting a good run at the last one. Once you're confident enough to do one and two easily you'll be in better shape to do 3 if that makes sense. Concentrate on landing in the right place after 2, once thats sorted you can take step 3 on.

If you were feeling brave you could give a little hop on your back wheel just as you're leaving step 1 to help you over that gap. I'd keep my front end a bit lower as well to but don't listen to me as I'm not much better than you!

Thanks for the comments

Are they bike boots that you're wearing, or just hiking boots?

Anyway, the real point here isnt that.

Break the section into individual parts.

Part one

1) Start from where you start...

2) Creep forward, use more revs but continue to slip the clutch.

3) About one foot away from the first part of the obstical, dump the clutch completely, should give you a kick up onto it as if you were wheelying but easier to control.

[use only enough revs to give you a kick to the top of the obstical when the clutch is dumped, no more. Try to keep the wheel low, but still off the ground once up]

Part two

1) Quickly dump the clutch with quite a bit of throttle., and quickly yet powerfully load and unload the suspension... Move your weight right back and then forward as you launch. All about timing here, sure you can work it out. Remember to cover the brakes for when you clear the gap. You want to stop as close to the gap as possible. Could possibly put a small rock down to try and give you a little kick across the gap to begin with while you work on timing.

Keep trying this until its done, you dont need to stop completely at this part, you can roll slowly.

Part three

(I assume you want to get up onto the slab of rock that you keep falling before or going round)

1) Build the revs up, and dump the clutch again, preload the suspension and unload it quickly, pulling the front up with you so the bike is at more of a vertical posistion, and the wheel slams against the rock, once the rear seems to be at the top, touch the brake to bring the front down

If theres any parts you dont understand, just say... Having not been there before, its a bit hard to see what you're trying to do.

You may find it easier to keep under control in 1st to begin with, second on the sherco is quite a fast gear.

And remember, keep that brake covered!

Thanks for the very informative post, its explained alot and I'll try and put it to good use in trying! Those are neither of the above, I'm donning a pair of rigger boots, I really need a proper pair of trials boots, was going to get some apinestar's this week but my cars just broke

In terms of low, how low? In between horizontal and where it is now?

It looks like you dont have your legs bent enough. Squat and flex your legs more. Also your weight is too far forward. Your relighing on the throttle to hold up the front wheel. Squat, Flex, and lean back more. It seems that your not using the suspension enough because of the straight leg technique. When you get to the top of the second rock hold pressure and quickly push into the suspension hard enough so that the bike will jump off the ground While blipping the throttle to launch the bike. Maybe yor bars are adjusted too far forward? Go to you tube and lookup Ryan Young videos. Or better yet Buy yourself a set of his DVD's.

In this video look at how the rider drops his knees to get over the rock.

Your absolutely right, I am relying on the throttle to hold the bike up, I can do big long wheelies, but I would refer to them as power wheelies as I rely on using my power to keep me going, and once the gear runs out the nose falls down. I've tried to slow it down but i dont know what gear I need to be in when doing them.. I do them in 4th which gives me a pretty good gap to go from, but I would love to be able to control the balance and do slow wheelies.. Do I need to practice holding the bike up without relying on the power to keep me there? Is this just holing it at that very ridgid point, near vertical where you can feel anymore and your going over? Whenever I try those, It tends to slow the bike down for me absorbing the momentum, but its hard to keep it right on the tip of that point, near vertical. I've tried using the brake to slow me down but it just slams the front end down so matter how soft I try to touch it, what gear should i be using to attempt these sort of wheelies? Maybe i need to work on my wheelies to practice the balance at that angle, I think thats whats helped to get to the stage im at there, even though its the wrong technique!

Heres a short video on how I wheelie, if you can notice from this

In terms of bending my legs, I've only just realised that and I stress enough to my mate that hes too stiff and he needs to bend his legs more, perhaps I need to take a leaf from my own book. Studying the videos it looks more like im just shifting my weight forward without actually doing anything(preloading the suspension), although when your going over the gap it does feel as though I'm actually jumping it, and not like in the videos. I have completed this rock a few times which looked and felt good, but no videos of the good ones sadly, ha. I asked a friend to record some specifically to place on here, because I was at my wits end on what I was doing wrong.

I am going too take a shot in the dark that you have NOT rode a trial yet? I am not saying that too be out of order so please don't take it the wrong way. but if i am right the first mistake you are making is only going to Charlton's, get out and ride a proper trial. you as a new starter would never be expected too ride them rocks in a centre trial. the lads you see making them look easy are experienced trials riders. you are trying far above what you need too for now. from what i have seen on the short video clips you ARE ready. enter any club trial on the b route. you are obviously a member of guisborough, please ride one of the summer series events they put on it will show you what you should be practicing, they are a good day out and you will meet a lot of good lads. please try not too become a slate rat (charlton's only users) get out and enjoy the sport there is some amazing land used for trials in the east yorks centre.

Wouldnt consider any of that out of order. I do want to compete in trials, I just need to find myself a pair of boots. I was saving up for some decent quality ones, but due to car related issues meaning I need to save up alot of cash fast for a new one, I think I'll have to go for some budget ones for now. I know what I'm doing wouldnt be on the trials I was expecting to compete in, I've already been told these are more closer/are expert rocks, I just feel I'm way in over my head with this one, but I'm so close to nailing it, having got over it so many times although hit and miss, I dont want to give up and say its defeated me

Looks to me basically what 2k8 was saying, as you need a bit of bunnyhop, so drop and load the rear then jump forward with a little rev and full pop, and land the front wheel on the 3rd rock and let the then unloaded rear follow.

Kind of like an endo to the third rock? Think thats a little too much to be asking of me at this stage

Thanks again for all the time to give good comments people, i'll try and put them to good use and hopefully nail this bugger

Edited June 6, 2010 by jonnybmac

[john.b]

Try doing this section another way. You are practising and not competing so there is nothing to stop you practising each part of the section on it's own and then putting it all together once you can clean each individual part.

Split the section in to two parts. The first bit you keep doing all the time but you are struggling on the last bit so then practice the bit you are finding hard.

Make your practice bit the last part of the section, so start on the flat rock and ride up and over from a standing start ( stood balanced) the bit at the end.

When you have done that bit then you are ready to put it all together in one long section. Go back and jump over the first rocks and gap, and then stop on the rock, using clutch and back brake and balance and compose yourself, then do the last bit that you have practised.

I know which rocks that you are trying and the camera has flattened it somewhat. You are brave and got some guts to be trying those after three months. Well Done.

Edited June 6, 2010 by John.B