jse Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 One only has to look at the swarm of "helpers" into the lower part of the section when the observer's attention is on the rider at the upper part of a section. I have a lot of stories from my WTC observing duties, but to give a very small idea of some of the lengths the teams go through to tip the scales in their favor I'll relate just one. At the 1997 WTC round at Donner, on Section 11, in the back part of the course, my helpers and I were waiting for a young Spanish rider to show up on the first loop. Shortly beforehand, a couple of breathless young lads came up and positioned themselves right next to the most difficult part of the section and seemed to be awaiting the rider's appearance. They both had a couple of what we used to call, in my younger days, "crickets" which were a small bug shaped toy with a short spring steel piece, when pressed, went "click-click". They started loudly clicking them and making noises when the rider entered the section and although this behavior seemed out of place, but I didn't find the high-frequency clicks really distracting while I was busy with the rider. The rider got a multi-dab 3, at which time the minder demanded loudly that his rider was distracted by the boys and should immediately be given a re-ride. I said I did not feel the rider should be given a re-ride under the circumstances. He then pleaded his case to my helpers in an effort to have them influence my decision, but my oldest son and best friend felt my call was appropriate and they also were not distracted. The minder then started a barrage of Spanish epithets that, unfortunately for the minder, I understood. After he had vented his feigned rage, I replied that his mother would not be proud of him for his behavior this day. I had noticed that after the rider had gone out the exit gate, the "offending" spectators took off on a run down the loop, apparently to the next section. After the event that day, I later saw both lads in the tent of the rider, having a snack with the minder and a check with the observers on section 12 revealed the same occurance had occured there. This trick would only work once but was probably good for a few points off the riders score when pulled on an unexperienced observer. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bdmc Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Thanks to all who assisted on the sections both Saturday and Sunday. I know you did a great job under difficult circumstances. There will always be some smart ar//s in the crowd who could have done better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shercoco Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 The way the riders and minders wrecked section 2 shows why the minders should not be in sections. Observers had to leave their meeting to basically go and protect the work that had been put into the sections. Boulders were lifted and rolled into place by riders and minders, they basically wrecked the section. Would people like to watch every rider get through a section that has been made easier by minders and riders or would they like to see the riders use the skills they have to tackle a challenging section. "Everyone is an observer" at these events and no observer can see all areas of the sections, though they do their utmost to. If people are so observant they will be putting their names down for the next world round to demonstrate these skills?? Get off the soap box and stop knocking people who are giving their time and effort only to be knocked by these "observant watchers". Even at club level dabs get missed, and it is no different even at this level. If there was even the slightest doubt about a dab then the observers were instructed to give the benefit of that doubt to the rider. Minders and riders have to be watched so closely as they try to move rocks in the sections, even when the trial is running. You have to watch them like a hawk to stop them. The top riders are the worst as as soon as your attention is on the rider coming through the section they and their minders cross the section, dragging rocks into place or moving obstructions out of the way. Minders should not be in the section at all unless they are needed to catch - they know the rules but constantly had to be asked to leave the sections, running up the section behind a rider was not allowed and both the rider, minder and team manager know this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big john Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Maybe the observers need "minders", to stop the minders making their adjustments to the section? Big John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chr155_d Posted June 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Think I've maybe been misconstrued here I am not personally attacking any off the observers at any trial, merely pointing out how a performance of an individual is not correctly scored based upon the factors that do occur with any observer in that position! This means that the format of scoring a trial at present in my personal opinion is in-effective! Don't mean to sound like a ****, but I did state what a fantastic weekend it was, maybe I can now see why trials is not in the mainstream with such a complex, hard to follow format that's non transparent for fans and the general public Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Th such a complex, hard to follow format that's non transparent for fans and the general public Sorry, really cannot agree with that statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chr155_d Posted June 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Sorry, really cannot agree with that statement. Care to back up what you say? I would point out that the best of British trial has been cancelled! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 TSR 22a and 22b arguement coming up....... ...again Jordi, in Scotland we use NON-STOP therefore people spend their time at WTC and British level trying to figure out whats going on. I had to explain the differences god knows how many times this weekend. If someone has never seen stop rules in action it can be confusing so Chris has a valid point. Observers with minders....might be a good idea... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Observers with minders....might be a good idea... I like that too. At the Donner World Rounds, we had a lot of trouble re-doing the sections in the mornings that the minders, etc. went out and messed up the night before. I'd like to see the observer's minders be armed with high-powered paintball guns and non-washable paintballs..... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shercoco Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Sign me up for that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted June 29, 2010 Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Care to back up what you say? I would point out that the best of British trial has been cancelled! Essentally trials is man & machine against the terrain., preferably non-stop. What has the Best of British got to do with it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chr155_d Posted June 29, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 29, 2010 Essentally trials is man & machine against the terrain., preferably non-stop. What has the Best of British got to do with it? Thanks for clarifying the essential principal of the sport, I am already aware of what the sport is, I am not however aware of the governing rules of the sport that affect that essential test you mention! I refer to best of British as being cancelled to back up what I say about the main stream, which I think this event being cancelled is a great shame. the sport is not more widely recognised and the riders not more rewarded on there ability as sportsmen/ women! As the fim are trying to do by introducing new rules and restrictions this does make the format complex to keep up with in comparison to let's say a motocross race where there is only one wonner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan williams Posted June 30, 2010 Report Share Posted June 30, 2010 (edited) This is a classic case of what happens when the rules are not enforced. The response is usually more rules that won't get enforced and so it goes. If you catch a minder gardening in the section an immediate five stops all that activity for the rest of the day for all minders. If they yell and scream they get the 25 point misconduct. That stops the yelling and screaming for all riders all day. The rules work if you use them. A couple friends of mine observed a world round many years back where a rider and minder started to get in the face of the guy with the punch. Bad idea. After yelling at him in French for a while and ignoring the order to step out of the section my other friend who was the chief observer for the section yelled, "Punch him 25 Bob!" Apparently they understood that, turned around and took off. The big problem occurs when the trialsmasters and the sanctioning body don't back up the observers, overturning decisions and giving the observers a hard time for enforcing the rules. I've seen it happen many times. At a US national last year during the observer's meeting the NATC rep said, "Don't be too strict because we're all out here for a good time." After a few odd shuffles in the crowd our local club president raised his hand and said, "So which rules are we supposed to ignore?" There was a big laugh in the crowd of observers because 1. It was a valid question after what we were told. 2. It's New England and we're known for being strict on the rules. Especially for a national. Seriously, if the rules can't be enforced we might as well give the championship to the guy with the shiniest bike. Observing is only miserable when you must worry about enforcing the rules, but not too much lest you upset somebody. Oh yeah, have you noticed the guys who are the most indignant are the ones who make the most blatant fouls? Edited June 30, 2010 by Dan Williams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chr155_d Posted June 30, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 30, 2010 Great points dan Williams and would back that stance on the use of the rules 100% it's what should be happening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigfoot Posted June 30, 2010 Report Share Posted June 30, 2010 I'll remember that Chris for Tillymorgan this weekend. I'm not sure where to punch your 25 though on a punch card with 0,1,2,3 & 5 on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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