Just An Observation.... Wtc Fw

[jse]

Great points dan Williams and would back that stance on the use of the rules 100% it's what should be happening!

I agree. The problem I've faced is that the observers are so busy and focused on the rider in the section they have

no time to look out for the rest of the section and everybody knows it, well, maybe not the spectators. To fully

enforce the rules, you will need another observer to not be judging the rider but overseeing the section. You can't

be focused on scoring a rider at the WTC level and be yelling at a minder at the entrance of the section at the same time.

If we are going to fully enforce the rules, we must fully support the scoring staff and not ask them to do the impossible.

We might even have more volunteers under those circumstances.

Jon

[walworth]

From my viewpoint , being a member of the Observing teams for the last 5 British rounds WTC I would thank both supporters and critics, I need you both.

Supporters offer me the feeling that there are people on my side who will back me up if things get hairy, who understand the effort needed to stand in all weathers, and who tend to be people who themselves will give, in some way their own efforts to keep the sport healthy.

Critics are inevitable, in any sport, and a source of much pain, BUT, they keep me on my toes, knowing somebody is looking over my shoulder, watching for mistakes is always a good thing. There was a video camera in our section all day Saturday. I know that the resulting DVD will be scutinised around the world by a legion of armchair observers, tinny in hand, feet on the coffee table,with the benefit of slow-mo, replays , freeze frame etc, etc. They will spot mistakes I made, and I will not apologise for them, human error is only eliminated by the removal of the human. We are not perfect, but we are the best you have got.

As for the riders/minders, I think the football anology is quite appropriate in some cases. I get youngsters at club level who will throw a tantrum if I give them more marks than they think they deserve. And why? because they see their heroes doing it at world or national level. Not all of them , or even most of them, but certain top riders set a bad example to the kids, and younger riders can think it acceptable behaviour for minders to interfere with the section, and try every form of coersion to reduce their scores. I was sworn at in at least 5 different languages at the weekend, mostly by younger riders, and that is worrying. Last year at Carlisle a certain Mr Agar looked my wife squarely in the eyes, smiled, and called her a witch, in Spanish. Very funny, Mr Agar, but a bad example to an impressionable youngster.

I would take the opportunity to say that the trial was overall a brilliant event, a showpiece of what we can do in Britain, and a credit to the organising team. My only concern might be the commercial viability of this event, given it's distance from centres of population, it may just be a few miles too far for it to really draw the crowds in.

[bigfoot]

My only concern might be the commercial viability of this event, given it's distance from centres of population, it may just be a few miles too far for it to really draw the crowds in.

I disagree. It would be great if L&M were to share the numbers with us but they probably won't and I understand why. It would be good to see how the number stack up against the Hawkstone rounds which were right in the middle of England. I personally think that the numbers were good but may not have appears so due to the spread out nature of the venue. This very nature is a positive thing. I travelled to the Hawkstone rounds and thought viewing was very poor. Partly due to the fact that on many sections the ground sloped away from the sections meaning only those at the front got a good view and partly because the section were close together meaning that crowds followed the top boys of which there are so few.

[proc]

i'm gonna have my two penneth, i was stood at section 2 on sat morning just on the bridge so had a fairly

good view of most the section, i happened to notice one of the minders just happen to walk over one of the

big rocks which just helped it slide into the big gap round the pool area, now to me he could of walked anywhere

else around that area but no he had to stand on this particular rock and help it fall, the observer did notice this and

queried that it had been moved on purpose but couldn't do anything about it which is wrong imo as it was the most deliberate

piece of gardening i've ever seen!! then later on, on 15 another minder was told to stop trying to tamper with the section but did not listen and his rider was given a 5 as soon as he was ready to ridew the section which i think is absolutely correct if you can't ride

a section without cheating don't bother turning up!!

[baldilocks]

The only thing that was dissapointing about the whole weekend was the attitude of some of the top riders and minders to the observers. I was at section 4 during the first lap on Sunday and thought Bou's behaviour was appaling after his five.

The minders in general ignored the observers instruction for as long as possible to get out of the section. There was only really two places to warrant catching in the section and thats the only places they should have been to be honest. The spectators wouldnt like to miss the riders riding but the solution probably is to dish out some fives.

[neils on wheels]

The only thing that was dissapointing about the whole weekend was the attitude of some of the top riders and minders to the observers. I was at section 4 during the first lap on Sunday and thought Bou's behaviour was appaling after his five.

The only thing that disappointed me was the crowd's attitude at times. I stood on more than one section, including section 4, and heard members of the crowd barracking observers, sometimes en masse, to attempt to alter their decision. Riders & minders I can understand, though not excuse; the crowd hassling observers I just cannot understand.

[wri5hty]

maybe thats the answer instead of the crowd barracking the observers they should send a bit of grief the way of the gardeners?

last year at nord view, a friend of mine ( bit of a gob on him ). took great pleasure in shouting "LEAVE IT" "GET OFF THAT ROCK" "OY PACK IN". it did work with some of the gardeners without actually putting the rider in the section off. at worst you get a laugh at the section fiddler spinning round like a meerakat in a panic.

If we want too see the best riders in the world riding the section as its intended maybe we ( the public ) should shame them ( the minders/riders ) into leaving the section well alone. or is this wrong.

I witnessed a beta mounted spanish rider, on section 6 lap 1 sunday try too argue why he should not of had a five. the lad should be a politician, only other people i have heard talk so much s***e.

well done too all observers everywhere you do a cracking job. thank you for your time and effort.

[big john]

and heard members of the crowd barracking observers, sometimes en masse, to attempt to alter their decision.

Well here is one observer that simply ignores the crowd, what is it to do with them anyway? It's the official observers' decision that is important not that of the crowd! And NO putting on a yellow bib certainly doesn't go to my head!

Big John

(be firm... but be fair!)

[chr155_d]

I'll remember that Chris for Tillymorgan this weekend. I'm not sure where to punch your 25 though on a punch card with 0,1,2,3 & 5 on it.

HA classic example of when to keep my gob shut,

ps the only gardening that happens when im in section is me going of line and mowing the markers down!!!!

looking forward to the new ground though!

[copemech]

HA classic example of when to keep my gob shut,

ps the only gardening that happens when im in section is me going of line and mowing the markers down!!!!

looking forward to the new ground though!

I agree, as I cannot fathom why it would be so tough being an observer. Most observers in the sections I ride just simply say go, then carry on their conversations with others. Somewhere in the back of their heads they are still listning though!

One S--T!=1

Two S--T!=2

Oh S--T!=5, and so it goes!

At the end the punch my card, and I just ride off!

[dan williams]

Heh heh you've never ridden in New England.

[jse]

I agree, as I cannot fathom why it would be so tough being an observer. Most observers in the sections I ride just simply say go, then carry on their conversations with others. Somewhere in the back of their heads they are still listning though!

One S--T!=1

Two S--T!=2

Oh S--T!=5, and so it goes!

At the end the punch my card, and I just ride off!

I've had Mark do several four S**T rides in my sections and you have no idea how confusing THAT is to score.......

I've never really had any problems scoring with club Trials, very rarely with National Trials and a time or two with WTC rounds. It seems that the more money that is involved, the more emotions (and investment in the outcome) run high. I agree with John, bend over backwards to be accurate and fair, but stand by your final decision, it's worked for me for over 30 years.

Jon

[copemech]

Heh heh you've never ridden in New England.

No, it is a bit far, do they cheat, a lot?

To be honest, I try to not even look at the punchcard, nor total it untill after. Yet on the same token, I have had instances where there was a 5 punched rather than a 0.

This usually stands out as 005 or the likes on the card, so I will question it, knowing it incorrect. Observers do recall.

On distracted observers, usually they just ask, and I never lie!

Trials is Trials, just a game, and fact is there have been times to where an observer cannot see a dab, thus cannot score it and did not ask. Well, all I can say is that I must give the same grace while observing others, so benifit goes to the rider, sorry, but that is the game. And the less I count, the better I feel about it all as I find no moral obligation upon myself as it is lost in the day. So be it. Not a perfect game.

In a no stop event, this can be tricky! Just ask for consistant observers! Don my best, let it be what it is.

[jse]

On distracted observers, usually they just ask, and I never lie!

I'll vouch for Mark, this is true.

When I train new observers, I advise them to study their section carefully and try to choose a place where they will be able to see where they think most of the dabs will occur or where a specific problem area is. Stay in that spot during the first loop of riders going through and not change your position, if possible, untill the start of the second loop and only score infractions you actually observe to occur. This way you will be as fair as possible to all the riders. Sometimes you will need to change your point of observation during the loop but try to be consistant.

I take the new club riders out the first couple of events and show them how to walk a section and check other riders in our group among other things. One of the "hooks" I use to get new observers is that to really learn how to "read" a section, a couple of the best ways are to (1) help set up a section and (2) act as an observer. The feedback I get is that the riders learn more by setting up and observing than they ever did just riding.

Jon

[dan williams]

No, it is a bit far, do they cheat, a lot?

Tough to cheat here. Checkers are very serious about following the rules. It's a New England thing and yet driving to the event you'd swear there were no rules at all on the roads. Like being in Milan but with bigger cars.