Fuel Choices

[htrdoug]

Trying to decide what fuel to run,here are my choices:

Vp-110 leaded- easy to get. The fuel distributor across the street from my house keeps in stock,reasonable price. Any VP unleaded would cost me alot more and I'd have to buy more than I could use quickly.

93 octane(us pump) has alcohol,comes from a station that uses separate hoses for each grade,so I get 100% premium each time I buy 2 gallons,My Grand Cherokee runs great on this fuel,and it has very aggressive knock sensors,runs like crap due to oversize tires when octane isn't up to snuff.been running this fuel ok in my bikes as I only buy just enough to use in a couple of weeks,just don't like the Idea of alcohol in my 2 strokes,so I'd like to change.

I can get premium without alcohol,but it's twenty miles out of my way each time I need fuel,octane is a bit below the alcohol premium above. Grand Cherokee ran the same on this as premium above.

I can run a 50-50 mix of the VP-110 and a alcohol free regular grade fuel that the fuel distributor keep in one of the pumps of a local gas station for all the guys running landscaping businesses,it's specs indicate it may actually be as high as 92 research octane but it's motor specs bring it down to 87 us pump,I'm guessing a 50-50 mix would be about 98 us pump.

VP-110

CountryMark Fuels specifications

US Pump octane=research+motor/2

Bikes are:

2003 GasGas 280TXTEdition(aluminum fuel tank)

Fantic 240 (some sort of plastic fuel tank)

Fantic 309(plastic fuel tank that is paintable,don't know what it would be)

[sting32]

Trying to decide what fuel to run,here are my choices:

Vp-110 leaded- easy to get. The fuel distributor across the street from my house keeps in stock,reasonable price. Any VP unleaded would cost me alot more and I'd have to buy more than I could use quickly.

93 octane(us pump) has alcohol,comes from a station that uses separate hoses for each grade,so I get 100% premium each time I buy 2 gallons,My Grand Cherokee runs great on this fuel,and it has very aggressive knock sensors,runs like crap due to oversize tires when octane isn't up to snuff.been running this fuel ok in my bikes as I only buy just enough to use in a couple of weeks,just don't like the Idea of alcohol in my 2 strokes,so I'd like to change.

I can get premium without alcohol,but it's twenty miles out of my way each time I need fuel,octane is a bit below the alcohol premium above. Grand Cherokee ran the same on this as premium above.

I can run a 50-50 mix of the VP-110 and a alcohol free regular grade fuel that the fuel distributor keep in one of the pumps of a local gas station for all the guys running landscaping businesses,it's specs indicate it may actually be as high as 92 research octane but it's motor specs bring it down to 87 us pump,I'm guessing a 50-50 mix would be about 98 us pump.

VP-110

CountryMark Fuels specifications

US Pump octane=research+motor/2

Bikes are:

2003 GasGas 280TXTEdition(aluminum fuel tank)

Fantic 240 (some sort of plastic fuel tank)

Fantic 309(plastic fuel tank that is paintable,don't know what it would be)

Until you read on the oil you use, that it is compatable with alcohol, dont use alcohol if even hardly possible. alcohol turns the oil into micro sized jelly beans (I like to think more like gummy bears), plus it likes to force seperate the water from gas, which is an issue, and IMHO (not just mine, lots of reading) the alcohol gas goes bad in less than 90 days of storage (in less than 50 gallon storage containers).

FWIW, We use some race fuel, about 1/3 race to regular no blend. US regulations no longer make it mandatory to tell the consumer if he is buying alcohol blended fuels. I feel lucky, the manager of the buisness I buy fuel from is a motorcycle enthusiast as well, reportedly... so he wants to keep the availability of non blended gas at his station. you will notice non alcohol blends last longer, and if you have older bikes with plastic or fiberglass tanks, blends cause issues with those tanks as well... I drive 60+ miles to work and back per day, alcohol takes more than 10% off my weekly mileage per tank average, I track this for more than a year with 2 stations I buy from. one near work has non blend and one at home is blend by default.

If my Kehin carbed gasgas will plug with blended fuels that have alcohol, EVERY TIME.

Long time ago, when i was into high performance cars, people used Avaition gas, but my engine builder at the time recommended that I shouldn't, he thought 50/50 could be ok if and when I said I wanted to try it, but I didnt. I cant recall why he didnt like it, he was an older guy done this for years, and this was in the late 80's.

[nigel dabster]

Its at times like this you know you live in the right place.

[axulsuv]

Doug I run ave gas in all my bikes with amsoil dominator at about 70 to 1 , Small plane airport about 2 miles from my house and you can store it almost indefinitly ...

And it has lead and a few other additives/stablizers that are unique to ave fuel . I'm sure Copey can chime in and tell us what all is in it ! We never ran it in when I used to build Flatbottom motors either , and I don't remember why not !!!

Did you get your silencer yet ? Stefano also hooked me up with a supplier that has some 50cc parts too !

Glenn

[htrdoug]

Got my silencer,and it's very sweet,but I've noticed the standard gusset cracks in my frame(really just the paint is cracked as of yet) so it's time for a major rebuild of the 240,I'm bumping up a class so I won't absolutely need to ride the 240 at every event so I think I'll drop silly $$$$ on her and make her look nice in addition to working well.

[axulsuv]

I think I'll drop silly $$$$ on her and make her look nice in addition to working well.

It's called a fanatical Fantic addiction ... No 12 step program yet !!!

Glenn

PS... And if I remember correctly the ave gas I run is guarenteed 110 octane to 30,000 feet .... so may be a bit higher down here on earth !

Edited September 22, 2010 by axulsuv

[copemech]

Well, it is late tonight and I cannot get into all things, yet suffice it to say that I am a bit p****d about the alcohol induced fuel and the grades. It basically sucks!

Avgas(100LL) has some advantages it seems, both in octane and storage times, yet due to the fact it is really designed for good atomization at altitude(cooler temps) I have had issues running it in a trials bike, such as hot restarts, so a blend may be more advisable, yet does not negate the alcohol you may have blended it with, which leaves you with semi-sucky fuel! Yet maybe better than nothing!

I will get back! later!

[betanz]

When i mix my fuel for the rev3 i mix 10 liters at a time and in that 10 L is 5L of 91 octane, 5L of Aviation fuel (AV gas) and 165ml of castrol TTS,

We have never had to change a spark plug and it always runs beautifully,

My Cr125 that I had before this we did the same thing except we put 300ml of TTS in the mix.

I would highly recommend these mixes as they have treated me very, very well.

Brad.

[htrdoug]

I will get back! later!

No hurry,things are running just fine with the E10 as I'm taking all precautions,I just want to protest the damn E10(and they're pushing for E15!)

[bigfoot]

Morrison's or Tesco's stuff straight from the pump for me. Bike never misses a beat.

[jimmyl]

Hmmm answer from a Scott- cheapest is best. As a Yorkshire-man I like your thinking. I also believe if you look at ACU regs all UK bikes should run std unleaded

[ishy]

I could just see some flat cap wearing ACU codger on't Yorkshire moor testing specific gravity of fuels lads are running in thier bikes, armed with a Tetley bottle for a test tube, wi tab end on full glow ower petrol tank

[telecat]

Firstly the USA uses MON not RON on their petrol so you cannot directly compare fuels between Europe and the US.

Secondly the ACU allows the use of fuels up to 102 RON. This is because fuel is available at the pump in Europe. Not many places in europe but it is available.

Lastly most bikes have a sticker recommending the use of fuels of 98RON or above. "Standard" unleaded is 95 RON.

Tesco sell Momentum which is 99RON and Shell sell V-Power at 99RON. Most other's sell 97 RON fuel. If you use "standard" unleaded you are using fuel that the manufacturers do not recommend. It does not mean it will not run. It just won't run properly.

Edited September 23, 2010 by Telecat

[jse]

Firstly the USA uses MON not RON on their petrol so you cannot directly compare fuels between Europe and the US.

Telecat,

The U.S. standard for pump fuel octane is a combination of MON and RON divided by 2, so it is an average.

For motorsports use the MON number is more significant as it is derived by more severe testing standards.

Jon

[copemech]

No hurry,things are running just fine with the E10 as I'm taking all precautions,I just want to protest the damn E10(and they're pushing for E15!)

Oh, yes, normally things will run ok in most bikes on the 92/93 octane E-10, which it has been stated to be roughly equal to the 98/99 available in the UK. All good if it is a fresh mix, yet the alcohol is hygroscopic and will absorb moisture up to it's saturation point. It just does not store well. The boys with fiberglass tanks have a bigger problem, it will eat them up and leave all the resin deposits in the motor!

My old gas goes to the mower, never been a big deal till last weekend, and it did not want to run. What did I find in the bowl? Looked like little plastic beads, just like what was described by Sting! Fortunatly, on the mower, one bolt will do it, quick job.

Octane is not Everything, fuels are blended to atomize best within certain ranges of operation. Octane is based on the fuel's resistance to pre-ignite under high compression and heat. The highest octane fuel may not burn well in a motor that is not designed to use it and can have incomplete combustion as it simply does not light off as well. Excess carbon deposits may(will)occur, and performance will not be enhanced.

There were actually some minor dyno runs done that indicated that a trials bike motor ran better(more power) on pump gas than the high octane VP and such. This was done back wher we did not have a lot of E-10, and may vary now, as the average reports I have read on the E-10 in cars has yeilded a fuel economy loss of 3-5% and I would directly associate that with an equal loss of power with no other changes.

I may even directlly associate this with the need I have found in the latter years of going to larger pilot jetting in my bikes in an effort to minimize or eliminate pinging . Over the last decade, I went from a 33 pilot jet to a 38 on the Sherco with the stock Dellorto(relate to many). It all makes some sense in a way, as the normal guide for running straight alcohol in a race car would be to double the jet size. So given a 10% ratio, a 5% increase in the normal jet. And from what I have seen, the same may apply to the euro fuel, as many seem to be recommending a 35-36 range now, as compared to the older spec of 32-33, or even a stock 30.

The good news is it does seem that VP is offering a 100 octane fuel, if you source it. It does seem to me that some bikes, depending upon year, are just set so at to really need a bit more than the 93 octane here can provide, although at the same time, I do think the bike manufacturers have backed off a bit on their fuel requirements by adjusting compression ratios and such.

The fuel engineers could probably tell you horror stories!