Multi Class Trials - How Many Routes / How To Flag?

[1st gear steve]

Whats your view on this guys???

I ride in the E.Yorks centre, where the debate is simmering nicely.

Previously clubs ran with Red/Blue flags, then an easier variation with Yellows. Classes then did either all hard / all easy or a number of sections somewhere inbetween.

Now several clubs (of which Middlesbrrough was a pioneer) are running another set of flags - Greens........

Reason.......

This allows the Exp some tough Expert only sections, allowing the Inter to drop to the green route (thus not riding the proper easy route).

The Greens (we call Clubman A) - get a route just for them & they do not have to ride any full hard route section.

The Yellow (we call Clubman - get a route just for them & some of the sections do not have to be stiffened up to allow Clubman A (Green) a challenge.......

Result (we Think)

A more overall balanced trial, giving more riders the challenge they want / need.

The clubs feedback so far has in general been very favourable - as you all know the spectrum of ability from top to bottom is 'light years', but niether rider is any less deserving of a good days sport.

What are you views on these systems - Not just in the E.Yorks but around the country - what systems would you like to see?

Your views would be most welcome..................................

[greg]

Is middlesboro in east yorkshire???

[pete_scorpa3]

We try to put on four routes if it's a youth round (also open to Adults) ABC&(D/E)

It's almost impossible to use blue/left, red/right etc for rour routes so we use coloured arrows.

Red A (Expert)

Blue B (Clubman/Over 40)

Yellow C (Beginner/Trail/ Pre-65)

White D/E (First timers and small wheels)

It's a lot of work but all the riders need to do is remember the colour of the route they are riding and ignore all other colours. Simply ride between the arrows of your colour.

For riders, it couldn't be simpler and is univerally liked, however it is hard work for the course plotters as you use so many markers.

[1st gear steve]

ACU has some slightly strange names for some of the centres - east yorks covers the northern part of N.Yorks, then goes down the east coast as far as the river Humber.

[meggy]

To be honest it dose not mater what colours you use if you are giving a choice to riders and every one knows which flags to follow all should be well

the only posible problem is observers not knowing who should be on what rout maybe a coulor plate on the front of the bike

[chewy]

It would be best for everyone (nationally) if there was a suggested format (colour scheme) for marking sections AND a national grading standard, It would be even better if these standards conformed to the rest of the world particularly our nearest neighbours. Having said that it is so unlikely to happen without a 10 year "war" of vested interests . Like most folk it is relatively unimportant enough compared to the big issues which affect our sport;.. eg land access / the greens the ramblers the parks wardens etc etc.

[manx2day]

We use red and blue as the main route with green flags deviating the experts and yellows for the C's and lower and the clubman following the red and blues. it is pretty straight forward and slightly less confusing than using more colours. it seems to work incredibly well.

[jamersby]

My lad and I ride in 3 clubs all of which uses the four coloured route markers for easy route clubman and so on, one club will use white markers for clubman, another club uses white markers for easy route, the other club uses white markers for youth c etc, when walking the sections you have to keep tabs on what club your riding and what colours they use, next week another club different colours ( oh s--t I should have followed yellow) happens sometimes usually on the first lap, so a standard format would be ideal for us seniles

[boorad]

i ride mainly east mids and we get 3 routes usually and for my sins(lots) set out for my local club and standing on a saturday with a collection of coloured pegs in hand thinking, i want to start there, finish over there, test the expert route, challege the clubmen and be gentle on the begineers, oh not forgetting that the observer needs to see it all, makes section plotting a 'black art'. last time had 4 complaints, 1 too hard and 3 too easy but a lot of 'just rights'.like observers section plotters like a thank you too.

[pete_scorpa3]

The ACU's nearest neighbour is the SACU.... I wonder what they do? Perhaps they have a standard system?

[old trials fanatic]

i ride mainly east mids and we get 3 routes usually and for my sins(lots) set out for my local club and standing on a saturday with a collection of coloured pegs in hand thinking, i want to start there, finish over there, test the expert route, challege the clubmen and be gentle on the begineers, oh not forgetting that the observer needs to see it all, makes section plotting a 'black art'. last time had 4 complaints, 1 too hard and 3 too easy but a lot of 'just rights'.like observers section plotters like a thank you too.

I too for my sins, i also have lots , have the unenviable job of some times laying out sections for my club, Peak Classic, and we have now come to the point where we will have to look at introducing "something" along the extra route course.

To explain we are a "Classic" club and have classes for Pre65, Twinshock and pre 95 air cooled mono all subdivided into Expert, 50/50 and Clubman. we are now getting problems attracting Pre65 riders especially on the Expert and 50/50 route. I believe it is because we have aquired the reputation of putting on trials which are too hard, they are a twinshock club, they are bike breaker trials impossible for pre65 etc etc etc. All accusations that i feel are unsubstantiated but it's not always what is factual but more about peoples perceptions well thats what life has taught me. Nothing could be further from the truth as i am desperately trying to attract more pre 65 entrants in all classes so we now find we will have to take action or the pre65 classes will have to be amalgamated due to lack of interest.

So we have been looking at a few options as follows.

1 Make the hard route easier but introduce two extra hard sections for Expert twinshocks and air cooled monos only. Problem is we struggle for enough observers as it is plus when i tried it i got a couple of complaints from pre65 competitors that they felt second class citizens not riding the full course.

2 Introduce a third route for Expert twinshocks and air cooled monos only. Problem is it gets confusing for the competitors and observers and the section becomes a sea of flags plus it gets increasingly difficult to plot the sections in the confines of land available.

3 Make all routes easier which pleases the lesser lights but results in, as one local club has found out, a large number of riders all on clean then how do you decide a winner? plus you then loose the better riders as they are bored and the club suffers financially from the shortfall.

4 Give up and abandon some classes routes and or combine them. Problem is the better riders get bored having to ride down and the lesser lights dont move up a class as they dont see the point of always finishing last or cant cope with the added severity of the higher route so the dont come and the club suffers financially from the shortfall.

We are already having to seriously consider raising the entry fees to

Edited September 23, 2010 by Old trials fanatic

[big john]

The ACU's nearest neighbour is the SACU.... I wonder what they do? Perhaps they have a standard system?

Yes the Scottish ACU does have a standardised system. Up to 4 routes can be accommodated if required. The easiest route is dropped if not required, for simplicity. Usually most events in Scotland use three routes.

In order of severity:

Red Route - Hardest (Premier Championship)

Blue Route - Sportsman Championship slightly easier than Red Route

Green Route - Clubman Championship (Standard Route for most)

Yellow Route - Beginners, non-championship and Youth D - Cadets

Started as an experiment in 2009, used exclusively with minor hiccups in the 2010 Scottish Championships.

Scottish ACU use cards either side of the section with coloured triangles on front and same coloured circle on reverse so riders have no doubt as to which direction they should be travelling.

It has worked well the past two seasons overall.

Hope this helps.

Big John

[boorad]

useing same colours for routes countrywide gets my vote but then the who's going to pay for it, as some clubs would be ok others would need a new set of pegs/cards and the clubs we ride at all seem down on entrys this year. as for setting 4 routes i find 3 taxing enough' got to go and lay down, but agree constructive criticism, better still help next time, always wellcome but not on a sunday when i've just got a front puncture' the bikes fell off stand and the bars gone through the vans back light i can laugh about it now

[big john]

useing same colours for routes countrywide gets my vote but then the who's going to pay for it, as some clubs would be ok others would need a new set of pegs/cards and the clubs we ride at all seem down on entrys this year. as for setting 4 routes i find 3 taxing enough' got to go and lay down, but agree constructive criticism, better still help next time, always wellcome but not on a sunday when i've just got a front puncture' the bikes fell off stand and the bars gone through the vans back light i can laugh about it now

It doesn't make things easier to lay out an event, but it does give the riders of differing abilities a challenge, without the need to ride a hard route or more to the point, one that is way beyond the competitors abilities.

Scottish clubs have begun to follow the championship lead by replacing their existing markers with new ones as they become due for renewal.

Big John

[pete_scorpa3]

It doesn't make things easier to lay out an event, but it does give the riders of differing abilities a challenge, without the need to ride a hard route or more to the point, one that is way beyond the competitors abilities.

Scottish clubs have begun to follow the championship lead by replacing their existing markers with new ones as they become due for renewal.

Big John

Gets my vote, I've campaigned the ACU for some time on this subject. Most clubs already use red,blue,yellow,green markers so a change to this format wouldn't be too expensive.

Clubs could use pairs of same coloured squares rather than arrows if they wished, although it wouldn't be too much trouble to draw arrows on the squares. Clubs which use flags might struggle a bit more, the course setters would just have to be careful to use obvious pairs.

The biggest problem to overcome is the "We've always done it our way, so why should we change" attitude. Why fix something that isn't broke? Or is it!