Converted mono's in spain?

[t-shock 250]

Looking at the todo trial classic site, and also in the video on zona trial, i notice one of the top twinshock riders is using an aprilia TXR mono converted to twinshock. I know its a mono because theres a few subtle differences from the t-shock frame and i have owned both models.

Are the spanish now allowing converted mono's or is he pulling a cheeky one?

Edited October 11, 2010 by t-shock 250

[old trials fanatic]

Looking at the todo trial classic site, and also in the video on zona trial, i notice one of the top twinshock riders is using an aprilia TXR mono converted to twinshock. I know its a mono because theres a few subtle differences from the t-shock frame and i have owned both models.

Are the spanish now allowing converted mono's or is he pulling a cheeky one?

Probably a case of if youre a big enough name you can do what you like. A bit like the Pre65 scottish. Then again i dont know what the Spanish rule book states so for all i know the Spanish may allow and encourage blatant "cheats"

LOL Nah surely not

[nigel dabster]

Probably a case of if youre a big enough name you can do what you like. A bit like the Pre65 scottish. Then again i dont know what the Spanish rule book states so for all i know the Spanish may allow and encourage blatant "cheats"

LOL Nah surely not

Its no different to the "twinshock" fantics that are about in the normandale though is it? ok not mono frames but alot else not authentic twinshocks.

[old trials fanatic]

Its no different to the "twinshock" fantics that are about in the normandale though is it? ok not mono frames but alot else not authentic twinshocks.

Actually think it's a lot different because if this is ok where do you draw the line?

Once a mono always a mono.

As for mono engines in "twinshock" frames. Dont agree with that either Nigel but modified mono frames to me are the thin edge of the wedge and should never be allowed.

[metisse]

I have too seen it... in the flesh.. a very nice job in the spirit, well ... its certainly not as blatant as a mono yamaha with shocks on ,but the post has a valid point.

The photos of bikes being ridden in Spain speak for themselves and they do go as well as they look, but from what I see when I ve ridden down there its a rare exception, so don t get too excited.

Off to the two day in Santagosa in a fortnights time will update here if anything changes my view.

Hasta la vista

[trialero13]

Metisse: Are you going and riding the SANTIGOSA CLASSIC TWO DAYS TRIAL ??

So there you'll see plenty of twinshocks and "classic" trials bikes. Some original and some other very expensive and modified...

The event is in Sant Joan les Abadesses, Girona, not far from Barcelona. It's a great and excellent event and also at Easter week the same club organize the Santigosa 3 Days trial, the biggest and oldest long trial in Spain.

See you there..

[metisse]

Yep, looking forward to it... will just try and make sure I can get enough diesel, to make it across the border, oh and avoid any hostile truckers blocking the peage... We have a smidge of unrest here in France.

See you sometime Friday evening .

[old trials fanatic]

Yep, looking forward to it... will just try and make sure I can get enough diesel, to make it across the border, oh and avoid any hostile truckers blocking the peage... We have a smidge of unrest here in France.

See you sometime Friday evening .

Good luck on the diesel front. A friend of mine is ging to France this coming weekend so i've warned him to for a change fill his tank up this side of the channel instead of as soon as he gets off the ferry.

Have a good trial and hopefully bring back some piccys especially of the "cheat bikes" as i am thinking of building one just in case i want to ride over there as though i dont agree with them the engineering interests me.

[totalshell]

here and now is the perfect opportunity of bolting the stable door before the horse hot foots it. pre 65 bike development has exploded as the baby boomers of the post war years are retiring and spending thier pensions time and aprenticed trained skills developing bikes for 8 hours a day seven days a week with more cash to hand and resouses cnc millimg machines etc etc that the factorys of yeasterday could nt even dream of. so that horse has not only left the stable its orbiting the moon.. the pre 65 scottish regs this year show an insight not seen much elsewhere by stating for the rigid class that frames must be the same as manufactured that brakes must be as fitted that engines must be as fitted fork outers must be as fitted.. thus leaving for some fettling but not to any major extent immediately with one paragraph reducing costs and potentially the number of rigid riders. now the acu / amca could do the same for twin shocks if they wanted and that would be a clear line in the sand.. frames as std, brakes as fitted to that machine, forks as fitted to that machine engines as fitted to that machine.. there end of no if's but's or maybes clear simple rules that anyone can follow

the acu is democratic mr wren contributes to these pages it ca be done befors next season if enough people want it to.. how much do you want it is the question?

[woody]

Yep, looking forward to it... will just try and make sure I can get enough diesel, to make it across the border, oh and avoid any hostile truckers blocking the peage... We have a smidge of unrest here in France.

See you sometime Friday evening .

Metisse - How big a problem is this fuel thing? I'm riding Santigosa as well and driving from Calais at midnight Thursday. I caught a bit of it on the BBC news tonight. Is it accross the whole country? There is no way my van will make Spain on one tank so I'm going to take a jerry can full as well just in case, but I didn't realise that there may be blockages at peages. Is that a reality? May have to look at other routes if it is - a van with UK plates won't have much success getting through any blockages I suspect....

OTF - I honestly wouldn't think of modified Spanish twinshocks as cheat bikes. They are a different concept altogether from the Pre65 scene here. I've ridden some Puma 340 Sherpas and a Vasquez 340 Sherpa. They are still Bultacos. Ported engines, reworked exhaust internals, modified fork internals, altered steering angles - yes, they have all these things but they are nothing that couldn't be done when the bikes were new (and probably were on some factory bikes) and nothing that individual owners who have the skills haven't done over the years.

I can't comment on the mono to twinshock Aprilia TX300 as I haven't seen it but I'm surprised that it has been done as when I was in Robregordo last year it was a pleasant surprise to see how the modified bikes still look basically the same as the standard model (apart from the anodised parts and extra polishing and chroming) They are just 'tuned up'. They are just able to get optimum performance from original components with some clever mods and the bikes perform very impressively.

Interestingly, there was one Bultaco that had a 38mm Paioli front end in it (drum brake, not disc) and no-one I spoke to approved of it, it was considered a step too far.

[nigel dabster]

Good luck on the diesel front. A friend of mine is ging to France this coming weekend so i've warned him to for a change fill his tank up this side of the channel instead of as soon as he gets off the ferry.

Have a good trial and hopefully bring back some piccys especially of the "cheat bikes" as i am thinking of building one just in case i want to ride over there as though i dont agree with them the engineering interests me.

last time I checked the fuel in france isn't much different in price to here.

[woody]

now the acu / amca could do the same for twin shocks if they wanted and that would be a clear line in the sand.. frames as std, brakes as fitted to that machine, forks as fitted to that machine engines as fitted to that machine.. there end of no if's but's or maybes clear simple rules that anyone can followthe acu is democratic mr wren contributes to these pages it ca be done befors next season if enough people want it to.. how much do you want it is the question?

You can't have rules like that. As an example, when I had a 1977 325 Bultaco (in 1979 as it was a couple of years old when I bought it) I found the forks much poorer than the Ossa I'd had before. If I could have afforded it I would have fitted some Marzocchis. There was no rule against this. Similarly, other people were fitting Yam or Suzuki wheels to Spanish bikes for the better brakes. Even Bultaco riders were fitting airboxes from earlier models to the later 199 model as it was considered better. People also altered the frame for head angle, suspension mounts to suit their own requirements. All perfectly acceptable

I've been riding my 340 Sherpa regularly for the last 4 years or so in modern as well as classic events (far more modern than classic in fact) The forks are just as bad as they were when I had my old '77 model. So when I get the chance I am going to fit a Marzocchi fork and yoke set from an Armstrong or Fantic. I already have a Fantic front wheel in it as the chrome liner on the original is scrap. Your proposal would prevent me from doing this, or from making any of the mods mentioned in the previous paragraph, yet they are all period parts. Similarly, anyone with a Commerfords 340 couldn't ride it as the frame is not standard.

I don't pretend to know what the answer is to try and stop twinshock development, if that is what will actually happen. I do know however, from experience in riding in many events, that whatever rules are in place, that there is a question of who is going to do the scrutineering, who knows the intricacies of each model, what part belongs on what bike? I've also seen zero scrutineering at many big events, regardless of what the regs say, so still bikes compete with inelgible parts, whether it is Pre65 or a mono converted to twinshock (very rare ocurrence) So far, twinshock mods in most events have been sensible, very few have gone 'over the line' and most riders seem to accept what is correct and what is not. Sure there are a few out there who will push it, but the current rules for the national championships state that the bike must have been twinshock at original manufacture and have drum brakes fitted. That alone should be enough to keep it in check. A lot has been said of fitting later Fantic engines with reed valves to 300 and 240 models, but Yams had reeds in 1974 and Ossa UK fitted reeds to their bikes in 1975 so if someone fits a 305 reed engine into their 240 instead of having their 240 cylinder converted (perfectly acceptable is it not as it is use of old technology), is there really any difference? Not that a 240 needs it, but that's a different matter.

[bilc0]

Oh no,we're banging this old barmaid again.

I would be more concerned if people wer'nt trying to make there old bikes better.

[metisse]

The unrest in France is pretty widespread, but worse in the big cities. Fuel where I live in the Dordogne is pretty unaffected, but delieveries are being disrupted so on the motorways it may.. and I say may, as I m not really sure, be tricky getting diesel.

You may have to come off and search for it... I would certainly throw a rug over a couple of cans and bring a reserve with you.

The lorries have been doing go slows and the odd blockade on the roads too, however being a cynic I cant see they will be about Friday or the weekend as well, as its the weekend .......,

There is a forum for Brits in France called "Totalfrance.com" have a look on there over the next couple of days its quite up on information when there is a bit of flap on.....will give you a better idea.

As to the bikes in Spain, to be honest they are extremely well prepared and in my opinion don t come under the cheat heading at all.

They are modded for sure but all look like they came out of their perspective factories only they shine a lot more...

There are a few special pre 65 bikes but its a small class compared to the uk, and apart from one tiger cub I saw with a Fantic front end looked pretty standard fare.

Its a long drive Woody, watch the speed as they have cottened on to the money it brings in and the speed traps are everywhere, see you Friday night hopefully safe journey.

[nigel dabster]

You can't have rules like that. As an example, when I had a 1977 325 Bultaco (in 1979 as it was a couple of years old when I bought it) I found the forks much poorer than the Ossa I'd had before. If I could have afforded it I would have fitted some Marzocchis. There was no rule against this. Similarly, other people were fitting Yam or Suzuki wheels to Spanish bikes for the better brakes. Even Bultaco riders were fitting airboxes from earlier models to the later 199 model as it was considered better. People also altered the frame for head angle, suspension mounts to suit their own requirements. All perfectly acceptable

I've been riding my 340 Sherpa regularly for the last 4 years or so in modern as well as classic events (far more modern than classic in fact) The forks are just as bad as they were when I had my old '77 model. So when I get the chance I am going to fit a Marzocchi fork and yoke set from an Armstrong or Fantic. I already have a Fantic front wheel in it as the chrome liner on the original is scrap. Your proposal would prevent me from doing this, or from making any of the mods mentioned in the previous paragraph, yet they are all period parts. Similarly, anyone with a Commerfords 340 couldn't ride it as the frame is not standard.

I don't pretend to know what the answer is to try and stop twinshock development, if that is what will actually happen. I do know however, from experience in riding in many events, that whatever rules are in place, that there is a question of who is going to do the scrutineering, who knows the intricacies of each model, what part belongs on what bike? I've also seen zero scrutineering at many big events, regardless of what the regs say, so still bikes compete with inelgible parts, whether it is Pre65 or a mono converted to twinshock (very rare ocurrence) So far, twinshock mods in most events have been sensible, very few have gone 'over the line' and most riders seem to accept what is correct and what is not. Sure there are a few out there who will push it, but the current rules for the national championships state that the bike must have been twinshock at original manufacture and have drum brakes fitted. That alone should be enough to keep it in check. A lot has been said of fitting later Fantic engines with reed valves to 300 and 240 models, but Yams had reeds in 1974 and Ossa UK fitted reeds to their bikes in 1975 so if someone fits a 305 reed engine into their 240 instead of having their 240 cylinder converted (perfectly acceptable is it not as it is use of old technology), is there really any difference? Not that a 240 needs it, but that's a different matter.

With fantics there really is a difference in pwer its not the reeds that are unfair. If you accept the fact that wiffen and pye use the later engine then the line may never be drawn as to whats fair, a Sherco engine in a 340, why not?