amiller Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 For the last 3 years I have been doing my best to ride other clubs events. On top of meeting a bunch of great people it has given me a chance to observe the trends past NYS. Not to my surprise, or anyone else Im thinking, attendance is dropping in a big way. Now with a substantial bump in AMA insurance and less riders to cover costs I have to wonder where our sport stands... How much is too much to pay for a local event? We can all just raise membership costs and event prices but Im worried that will turn Dad and his 2 kids away. If it costs him 100 bucks in entry fees maybe little league is looking a lot better. Cant afford to turn away any youth. In all the places I ride the average age is pushing well beyond 40. Anyway, just wondering if any of your clubs out there have been growing? Are you able to attract and keep youth riders? Are the bulk of your organizers under 45? Aaron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 (edited) For the last 3 years I have been doing my best to ride other clubs events. On top of meeting a bunch of great people it has given me a chance to observe the trends past NYS. Not to my surprise, or anyone else Im thinking, attendance is dropping in a big way. Now with a substantial bump in AMA insurance and less riders to cover costs I have to wonder where our sport stands... How much is too much to pay for a local event? We can all just raise membership costs and event prices but Im worried that will turn Dad and his 2 kids away. If it costs him 100 bucks in entry fees maybe little league is looking a lot better. Cant afford to turn away any youth. In all the places I ride the average age is pushing well beyond 40. Anyway, just wondering if any of your clubs out there have been growing? Are you able to attract and keep youth riders? Are the bulk of your organizers under 45? Aaron Good topic Aaron. Both clubs we have here on Vancouver Island are facing the same difficulties, and I think it is safe to say that most clubs we ride in are defenitely NOT gaining any membership. I too wonder why.... Lots of factors I guess. Right now the economy seems to be the best starter, although honestly where we live, it is not really factor. We are almost too spoiled here with so many opitons of recreation year round... I guess it might come down to the best bang for the buck, plus if you have a family how to cater to all of them. I have grown up riding trials and it is a big part of our family life. Now that my son is getting really good, we plan on riding Nationals. It will be a family affair, we plan on travelling and taking in lots of sites along the way as well as riding lots too. I guess if you look at the sport world wide, I think this is a common trend. At least if you look at the total numbers of riders in Nationals and World Rounds, all the numbers are way down from what they were even 20yrs ago. Edited October 29, 2010 by Steve Fracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirhc Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Here in Southern California our ridership dropped about 2 years ago, but since then has been holding pretty steady. I've also seen the same thing up in Northern Ca. I've asked some of the people who have stopped competing and they all have different reasons why, it's not just one thing. What I see though is groups of guys stop coming. For example there's a group of 5 guys that normally ride and practice together and have a great time. Then one guy stops coming for what ever reason, then another. After that it's not as much fun for the remaining guys anymore and they stop coming. Seen it a few times now, once one guy in a group of buddies drops out, the others usually do too. Raising the prices is the last thing that should be done. Just like when you raise taxes, it only makes things worse. The last few years we have also been giving year end Iron Man awards for the riders who ride (or check) all the trials that season. I think it has helped. Our last event had several new riders which was great, but many of the regulars weren't there so the number of riders held steady. Anyway, just wondering if any of your clubs out there have been growing? Are you able to attract and keep youth riders? Are the bulk of your organizers under 45? I organize several trials a year and I'm under 45, but the majority of my help are in their 40's or 50's. All the other organizers we have are over 45. Up North kids ride their Saturday events for free, which I think is great, especially if you have more than 1. I do feel bad when a new guy comes with 2 kids has to do AMA, club membership & the entry fees. Welcome to trials, now had us over $170. Next time that guys entry should at least be free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovita Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 This seems to be a common theme across north America. Lets all throw out some ideas to improve the situation. Our club offers $30.00 annual membership and $10.00 entry fee. We give nice awards and serve free lunch. It doesn't get much cheaper than that, and our rider turnouts are shrinking. So the fees aren't the whole story. The cost of traveling to events is a bigger expense. For the past several years I've been promoting a trail bike class at our events so that folks who don't want to invest in a Trials bike can come ride. I've had very little success. In fact I see far more people who want to buy Trials bikes than want to compete in Trials. A lot of our used bikes (and several new) are sold to "cross trainers", trail riders and back yard riders, never to be seen at an event again. If you go to one of the large internet motorcycle forums with a Trials category, you will quickly realize that many, if not most, posts are made by people who don't compete at Trials events. I still think the trail bike class has merit, but perhaps needs more widespread promotion. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ridgrunr Posted October 29, 2010 Report Share Posted October 29, 2010 Our rider numbers are down too. I suppose the economy could be part of the problem, but people seem to have money for the things important to them. One problem is that most of the old guys who have been around forever are for whatever reason slowly attritioning out of competition. Some how, as a sport we have to figure out a way to get new riders to come out and see what it's all about. I think that may be some of the thinking behind the change to the name MotoTrial, to get some excitement in the name that might attract the younger crowd that we need so desperately in the sport before us old guys are all gone. The other thing is the cost of bikes. The enduro riders we met on the Five Mile Off Hell ride were really interested in our bikes after they saw how much easier they went across the trail...that is until they asked us how much they cost. They were shocked. Our Trials bikes cost more than their high dollar enduro bikes did. That has hurt the sport too. Our sport has become very exclusive. Used to be that guys would show up to the meets on just about anything that ran, but now it seems that the mind set is that if your bike is more than two years old you can't compete. Somehow we have to get back to the mindset that you can have just as much fun on an older bike that you can pick up for 2k as you can a new bike that would cost 8K, and get all those 1990 and 2000 something bikes back into play, instead of sitting around, rotting in a some garage. We have vintage classes, maybe we need some in between class's that will allow a guy to bring out a 1994 Fantic KRoo and play, who won't have to compete with a 2011 GAS GAS Raga. We had to quit the AMA. The cost of doing business with them made it too expensive for the guys to want to come ride, so we got private insurance. These are the WTA fees: First Time Riders: $10 Adult Club members: $20 Member Children < 16: $10 Non-club member riders: $30 WTA Club Membership Fees: Single: $20 Family: $30 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joekarter Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 I agree with everyone else on the cost of equipment, however I think it's a problem that's common to a lot of the motorsport community. When times were good, just about every facet of racing participated in an "arms race" to technological levels we only dreamed of a decade ago. In trials, all of this advancement has made for some amazing bikes, however it's come with a BIG price tag both at the time of purchase and if manage to do something stupid and throw the bike off a cliff. Just like everyone else, I've shown my bike to newbees and they're really enthused right up to the point where I tell them how much one is and what the cost of oh say.....a fender gonna be. Then, I generally get the "I could by a new CR450 for that jump tall buildings in a single leap" speech, and they wander back to the Honda shop to go buy a new MX'r. I think to really be successful, the selling points for trials have to be the family aspects, the great people, and the relative safety of the sport. If we try to compete solely on the basis of "isn't this cool as the next X-games sport", we'll lose every time. Another issue that I've heard mentioned is the overall difficulty and danger level in some of our trials. I think this is actually a result of the improvements in equipment as much as anything, and from my experiance this scares away a significant number of potential new riders (especially parents of younger kids). While we all like seeing the best riders in our clubs doing spectacular obstacles, the newbees tend to focus solely on this part of the event. While I think its important to incorporate difficult steps and big ups into sections to keep the existing riders challenged, its my firm belief that it's equally important to keep the focus of club level trials on the technical difficulty of the basics and not just turning the sport into a slow version of Supercross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kramit Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 The old saying is " its easier to keep an old customer than try to get a new one " How about offering riders who haven't been out in say 6 to 12 months a free ride for one event to encourage them to return to the sport. Chances are they still have their Trial Bike and they just need a little push. Trying to sell MX ers on Trials is probably the biggest waste of time. Would you give up Trials and switch to MX if they asked you? NOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
axulsuv Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 its my firm belief that it's equally important to keep the focus of club level trials on the technical difficulty of the basics and not just turning the sport into a slow version of Supercross. Couldn't have said it better ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovita Posted October 30, 2010 Report Share Posted October 30, 2010 The old saying is " its easier to keep an old customer than try to get a new one " How about offering riders who haven't been out in say 6 to 12 months a free ride for one event to encourage them to return to the sport. Chances are they still have their Trial Bike and they just need a little push. Trying to sell MX ers on Trials is probably the biggest waste of time. Would you give up Trials and switch to MX if they asked you? NOT When we've offered a free one time ride for any reason that's what we've got. One ride and they go away. Now we are offering a free club membership when they pay for their first ride. That way they have to be interested enough to come up with a few bucks and are more likely to return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir dabs alot Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 I've seen guys that wouldn't consider a modern bike because of High cost scoop a vintage bike right up because the initial outlay of cash was minimal in comparison. Granted these were older guys that remembered old bikes fondly from back in the day. A lot of enduro riders seem curious about what trials can do for their off road skills after seeing former trials guys dominating their sport. Probably a good time to tap into that given that timing is everything. Seems like it would be really hard to draw in younger riders without the assistance and knowledge of a relative to move them along. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
76ty175 Posted October 31, 2010 Report Share Posted October 31, 2010 Seems like it would be really hard to draw in younger riders without the assistance and knowledge of a relative to move them along. We really are a family sport when you get down to it. Not very often do you get new riders without someone very close to them bring them into the fold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amiller Posted November 1, 2010 Author Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Im am always surprised when people give trials a shot and soon after quit. I have seen it a number of times. One of the biggest reasons I believe this happens, especially with younger riders, is almost no one can just get on these bikes and go ride at a higher level. If you ride a motorcycle at all and are completely brain dead you are more than welcomed to take a motocross bike to a track and attack the biggest jump there. Im not saying there is no skill there but the only thing stopping you is fear and common sense. With trials most people have a hard time keeping the bike upright with there feet on the pegs there first few times out. People just dont like putting in the effort. They want instant gratification. I have worked with some quite good motocross riders in the past that were sure they could just hop on a bike and be a very good trials rider. Didnt happen and very soon they gave up do to the fact they didnt like riding in a sport where the novice sections were kicking there butt. Trials is a building skills sport. You cant Zap and Splatter if you dont understand how to unload the suspension properly. You cant ride over much of an obstacle if you cant unload the suspension properly. Clutch and brake control are so important to section success combined with the fact a motorcycle just wants to fall over when they go slow.... You have to learn the basics in trals to have any success at the higher levels. If you dont learn the basics you wont be able to get your bike out in the woods to where the really cool stuff to ride is. I just dont see any way around it with trials, its a patient and thinking mans sport. There is not as much instant gratification as with many other sports we compete with. Hard to grow a sport like that in a country that wants everything right now and is not all that interested in putting in the work to get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hensley Posted November 1, 2010 Report Share Posted November 1, 2010 Hard to grow a sport like that in a country that wants everything right now and is not all that interested in putting in the work to get it. There are several good answers discussed here but the above explains it best. I hate to admit many Americans cant handle gradual improvement. It has to be super fast or they are ready to throw it away and try something else. even if it means repeating their same old mistakes again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 Mr. Hensley: Your theory is a good one, and I agree. But its not so much and American thing as it is just a sign of the times in think! I still remember how I thought about things when I was young, and now that I am a parent, the kids today just dont think the same way at all. The instant gratification is the perfect analogy. I constantly harp on my son to stick with whatever he attempts, whether it is trials riding, or school work! Sometimes it falls on deaf ears, but more often than not, my point is proved in the end! PS on another note, sent you a PM but not sure if you got it! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joekarter Posted November 2, 2010 Report Share Posted November 2, 2010 A kart club I was a member of had "interest sheets" at the events that newbees could fill out at with their contact information. In that way, they came away with names and e-mail addresses of folks they knew were interested in the sport so they could send things such as the club newsletters and invites to future events. With everyone having so many different choices on how to spend their time and money, it can be something as simple as a club actually wanting someone as a member that motivates them to give the sport a try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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