Club Membership

[sting32]

A kart club I was a member of had "interest sheets" at the events that newbees could fill out at with their contact information. In that way, they came away with names and e-mail addresses of folks they knew were interested in the sport so they could send things such as the club newsletters and invites to future events. With everyone having so many different choices on how to spend their time and money, it can be something as simple as a club actually wanting someone as a member that motivates them to give the sport a try.

That is a great point. I would add that:

In the 70's and 80's, most of the dirtbike/cycle shops had a flyer up and those boards were pretty much in plain sight at least if you were in the shop for parts. Been to shops nowdays nothin like it used to be, IMHO. It doesnt help that no shop, or dang near no shop, has a trials bike in the showrooms either.

it seems a trick situation: no bikes - no market - no growth. But no market because no bikes in shops to spark interest.

[alan_nc]

Interesting point: When I was a kid the bike shop was a 'hang-out'. Not so today, in fact in my area the Honda shop (over 20 years in business)closed this year as did the Harley dealer. There are two multi-brand dealers: BMW, and other high end bikes, and Asian , who also sells jet skis and 4 wheelers.

I don't think you can buy a Trials bike 'off the shelf' in NC.

Edited November 12, 2010 by Alan_nc

[copemech]

I admit I do find similarities here with others. Yes, the bike shops were a hang out, in a sense, and a point of exposure for most brands. We do indeed lack this now.

There will be no trials display in a normal motorcycle show here, as it costs too much to even rent a spot!

There could be someone that has been hired as an X-treme event (circus) on a (weird) bike that scares the crap out of everyone that watches the thing, but that is about it!

How he hell one might even think about doing "THAT" as a new experience is daunting.

I cannot do it myself!

[axulsuv]

I have to agree ... The last new trials bike I saw in a dealership was a Honda Reflex ,with lights and turn signals etc. and I thought to myself what a wannabe !(I know with a few minor mods they turned out to be a real trials bike )

And as Copey said the extreme sport side of our sport ain't really what trials is all about ! I've got friends that have been riding for years and have watched me play in my yard that are afraid? to even swing a leg over one of my kids bikes and give it a go ... (and your right , only trials riders I know and trust get to hop around on my trusty 240 ! )

But it is truly a family sport at the grassroots level and hard to get folks to try it . No instant gratification sums it up quite well ! Ya gotta work and practice it ! it takes some effort and commitment !

Glenn

[makita]

Our attendance is also lagging. I agree with the "instant gratification" syndrome.

The increase in AMA insurance has about put our club under. Where else have any of you been able to get insurance? Most of the companies that I have contacted (recommended by friends that run MX) do not know about trials and if they do, the hoops you jump thru (drawings of all sections 30 days in advance, etc.) for the $15 per event savings is not worth it. Thanks for suggestions regarding insurance!

[ridgrunr]

But it is truly a family sport at the grassroots level and hard to get folks to try it . No instant gratification sums it up quite well ! Ya gotta work and practice it ! it takes some effort and commitment !

Glenn

(WARNING...THINS IS A RANT! DO NOT READ FURTHER IF YOU DON'T WANT TO LEARN SOMETHING)

I used to think we were, you know "family friendly", but I wonder sometimes just how "family friendly" we really are. I mean think about it. A new guy comes to a meet with his kid. More often than not, if the event is run fully "observed", we send them out there on the loop by themselves and maybe they really don't have a clue of what is going on. They struggle all day, and don't have much fun. The next time there's a meet, they go quad riding.

If the event is run "group scoring" as most of ours are, the Dad signs up for the Sportsman class, the kid Novice. They go out with their respective classes, and never see each other again till the end of the day. Dad didn't get to spend a minute of the day with his kid. Kid rode with a bunch of guys he didn't know. Family friendly? Next time they go quad riding.

How do we stop this. Here's one way to do it if you score in groups. Mix up the scoring groups instead of having them go out in classes. Pick the largest class, say the biggest class is Intermediates. If there's six of them, you'll have six groups. Have the Intermediates line up. Now start lining up the rest of the riders behind them. One expert, one advanced, one sportsman, one novice behind each of the Intermediate riders. Let a kid ride with his Dad.

There will be someone in every group now who can show the new guys the ropes, maybe even coach them a little. Nobody is riding with anyone who they are competing against. You'll have to pick your own lines instead of waiting for the rest of your class to show you what works and what doesn't before you ride. No body is scored by anyone who they are competing against. You'll actually have to compete. What a concept. Plus now..you are family friendly.

Now lets look at another thing that's been brought up.

Section difficulty.

We're killing ourselves and our clubs when we gear the sections for the top riders in each class, which we usually do, to insure that they have a good time. After all, aren't we all there for the challenge? What if some are there just to have a fun day?

So say the #1 rider in lower class B wins with 38 points. Not bad. he had a pretty good day. But if there are six guys in the class, the bottom rider of the class will probably have 88...or more. That's unacceptable, especially in the lower classes. How can 88 points be fun?

In the lower classes, a section should be set so that the #1 rider wins the day with 15 or less points. Maybe only as much as 10.

Too little you say? No, and here's why.

Say a rider takes 1st place for the day with 34 points. The last place rider #6 has 92 points. How much fun has the #6 rider had? Not much. His day has been nothing but 5's and maybe an occasional 3 that took him nine dabs to get. Maybe he even crashed a few times. Maybe he broke his bike. Maybe he got hurt. Think he'll be in a hurry to come back? Probably not.

But the sections had to be that difficult to keep it fun for #1, right? Wrong!

If # 1 had won with 10 points. #6 would have probably had 40 points. That's liveable. 92...or even 82 is not. If #1 had won with 10 points maybe he'll decide that he's bored and has maybe gotten good enough to move up to the next class. Hey! Isn't that why we have classes? He might even survive moving up, if the sections in the next class are also designed so that the winner gets around 10 points. But if in the next class, the #1 rider has also been winning with 30 points, what's our rider who just moved up a class going to get? You got it, 89 points. Frustrated, he moves back into the old class and lobbies for the sections to get harder to keep him happy. See, it's a vicious circle.

Long story short. In the lower classes, say Intermediate, on down (maybe even every class), the sections need to be set with the LOWER half of the class in mind. NOT the upper half. If the upper half of the class thinks the sections are too easy...they can move up to the next class to stay interested. Again...can you say it with me?...ISN'T THAT WHY WE HAVE CLASSES?

The upper class riders want it harder. That's why they are UPPER class riders. But how many times have you heard an Intermediate rider say "If I had wanted to ride the Advanced class...I would have signed up for the Advanced class." No one needs National caliber sections in the lower classes. Leave the National caliber sections to the guys who might actually ride the Nationals... the upper class riders.

So set the lower class sections easy. Make them fun. Their section don't need to be life threatening. Technical is fine, but dangerous...no. Let them clean a few. This is where the majority of the riders in most clubs are going to be, in the lower classes. Leave the hard death defying stuff for the upper classes who are looking for it. If a guy wants hard, he'll move up (given the chance) until he finds what he wants.

There's only 1 rider (or maybe less) out of every 100 guys who is going to have the natural talent to get into the upper classes. He'll learn the basics in the lower classes and will quickly move up through the lower classes as his skills and natural talent improve.

The rest of us 99 out of 100 are guys who have no natural talent. None. We can barely walk and chew gum. We've been riding Trials for twenty years or more. Commitment? We've been riding since 1975. We aren't great riders and know it. We are never going to be Expert riders. Still we love the sport and still love to ride. We are 56 years old. We do have the cash for a new bike. We never get the chance to practice much. If we did, we'd probably be riding alone. About the only time we see our bike is the evening before the meet when we drag it out of the shed, make sure the tires aren't flat and that we have a gallon of rancid six month old gas still left in the can before we load it into the back of the pickup truck. So we get up at 4:00 am. Drive for 4.5 hours to get to the meet...alone. If we get 92 points for the day, crash twice, break the clutch lever and hope we'll be able to make the 4.5 hour drive home...alone and then get up to go to work on Monday. How much fun did we have?

Why keep doing it? Good question.

How many of us do you think will keep coming back?

Wouldn't it be easier and less painful to go golfing?

Still wondering why most of the clubs are so down on membership?

Edited November 14, 2010 by Ridgrunr

[sir dabs alot]

Ridgrunr, that's great!!!!

[76ty175]

The rest of us 99 out of 100 are guys who have no natural talent. None. We can barely walk and chew gum. We've been riding Trials for twenty years or more. Commitment? We've been riding since 1975. We aren't great riders and know it. We are never going to be Expert riders. Still we love the sport and still love to ride. We are 56 years old. We do have the cash for a new bike. We never get the chance to practice much. If we did, we'd probably be riding alone. About the only time we see our bike is the evening before the meet when we drag it out of the shed, make sure the tires aren't flat and that we have a gallon of rancid six month old gas still left in the can before we load it into the back of the pickup truck. So we get up at 4:00 am. Drive for 4.5 hours to get to the meet...alone. If we get 92 points for the day, crash twice, break the clutch lever and hope we'll be able to make the 4.5 hour drive home...alone and then get up to go to work on Monday. How much fun did we have?

Great post!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edited November 14, 2010 by 76TY175

[copemech]

You need to go practice getting a wheelchair up some steps dude! Cause thats where you are going next!

You have a bad attitude, like me! Funny, just how I do agree with most of your post.

I think there are too many classes as well. All this mix between amature, sportsman, intermediate and advanced and such. Add SR this and that to the mix. Just too much!

One can add a few class splits here and there if needed, but for the most part, three lines will do.

Points do not scare me, stupid big sections do. Leave them to the more adventurious. But just because I had points in technical sections does not neccessarily mean I did not have a good time trying! I could drop 2 per section and still be in high speed FO mode! Long as they did not try to kill me in the process! Even at 75 points, well might not be your best day, but does not mean you killed yourself. I have punched out of a few, adding up to 20-30 points, yet still had a decent day and did not kill myself!

You forgot to add, I wanna start late, about 10:30, do the first loop, take the lunch, then finish up and get outta there by 5:00!

[motovita]

COMMENTS FOR RIDGRUNR

As to your scenario of the beginning rider(s). One thing I have used successfully is to send out 1 or 2 upper level riders with each group of lower level riders. The upper level riders are scorers, guides and coaches for their group. Normally this is done in the morning then in the afternoon the upper level riders compete. They may be scored by observers from the morning groups or self scored in their own groups. There is the possibility of having a morning rider ride with an afternoon group and scoring for them but a lower level rider may hve trouble keeping up with experienced riders on a tough loop.

As to your low target scores for lower classes proposal I believe it can only apply to your lowest class. The ones with nowhere to drop down to.

It is vital to have evenly spaced, moderate steps between classes! If not you will have riders reluctant to move up due to the big jump in section difficulty they are facing. They may move up too soon and injure or discourage themselves or stay so long in the lower class that they get bored and discourage the lower class riders by dominating the class.

You need to also consider riders that need to move down the ladder due to age or injury. For example if I ride an advanced class and take scores in the 70s or 80s then move down to an intermediate class and win easily with a single digit score I'm left with a choice of beating myself up or riding boring sections and stealing trophies from lower level classes. Neither scenario is appealing to me, although I swear I will never resort to quad riding.

Big gaps between classes Is something I've long seen as a serious problem in our sport at the club level, and the only riders that should complain about sections being too easy or too hard are the top and bottom classes (although they need consistency between events so they know what class to ride).

[motovita]

Back to the original post.

I believe I've just learned something that opened my eyes.

While meeting with some friends in a neighboring Trials club I was very skeptical when they told me that every time they've quit mailing printed flyers to their members,and relied primarily on e mail and published flyers on their website, attendance dropped.

As doubtfull as I was I decided to poll our riders at our annual banquet last night.

We have always kept a list of people who have asked for printed flyers and dutifully mailed to them whether they have computer access or not. Otherwise we've been relying on e mail and our website for event advertising.

I asked the riders in the room to raise their hands if they thought that receiving a printed flyer in the mail was preferable to an e mail and if they thought that it could make a difference in rider turnout and event promotion. NEARLY HALF OF THE RIDERS IN THE ROOM RAISED THEIR HANDS! I was shocked. These were mostly professional men who use a computer every day of the week! I explained how the print button on their computers worked, they were not impressed. I told them that they could simply tell our club secretary, who was seated next to me, that they would like to receive mailed copies,and he would accommodate them. At the end of the evening I checked with said secretary to see how many had asked to be added to our mailing list, the answer was zero!

So the guys who won't hit the print button on their computer also won't take four steps across the room to ask us to send them the printed copies that they believe are important to both themselves and the club!

I cannot explain this phenomenon but apparently it's real. So tomorrow I will call my copy shop and inquire about mailing flyers in quantity for us.

[nottoogood]

Re Ridgerunners rant:

I've seen new riders come to events and not finish. I seen novice riders leave with with huge bruises. Add the broken bikes (and egos)...a lot of these guys dont come back. Thus, i see difficulty levels as a big issue. Another thing is getting volunteers to set up sections...8 am and 8 pm....each with several splits...thats a lotta work. Fewer classes/lines would make it easier. Even with all that...its still a lotta fun.

psg

[amiller]

Its interesting to watch were a post goes from the the conception. Its also very interesting to see how many of you are struggling with the very same problems as we are. I really question how much longer this sport will continue.

Three years ago myself and several other riders broke away from our club to start something new. We had been watching attendance drop for years and also noticed we could not get any new interest from young or old riders. For 10 years I had been trying to address this problem and pull the club away from its 70's concepts. Things change and times change. To survive you sorta have to keep in tune with the times. Change proved impossible from within.

When we set up the new club we tried to address all the problems we saw in the past. First we dropped the 20 page rule book. Pretty much couldnt see subjecting riders to National Standards when most were just out to enjoy the day on their bike. With that we also let anyone who would step up as an organizer decide how he wanted to do the trials. Yes we have standards, but if someone was willing to step up we didnt want to discourage them. From that we found that a gate system became most popular.

With our gate system you can have something for everyone. Since the rider makes his own line he gets much less discouraged and beat up. Its up to him to decide on abilities.

We also make sure new riders have someone to go ride with that understands things. Also a father can go ride with his kids all day. Or a rider can be with his buddies regardless of class.

Bottom line was we wanted to make things as user friendly and family oriented as possible. There is a whole list of things we change to attract and keep new riders. It was working for the first 2 years. This past year things changed once again. Attendance dropped sharply. We were having problems covering sanction and insurance. Now with the added cost we are reluctant to take on many events.

I wish I had an answer. I believe the present economy along with the soaring costs of everything are killing us. Lets face it, the USA covers a lot of square miles. The whole of Europe is like traveling through Texas. We have to travel farther for local events than the European community has to travel for the European Championship. It takes 3 days of straight driving to get to the opposite coast for a National Event here.

Maybe the USA is no longer suitable for our sport to continue. Less bike manufactures being imported less choice for potential buyers.

Soaring prices on the ones that are available. Worthless $ makes purchasing European goods out of reach combined with unfriendly importing laws making it that much more expensive here.

At the end of the day the only reason to continue is the pure love of it. Problem with that I see is if new people dont get involved soon the ones of us that keep this going are going to die out. At 39 years old I am one of the youngest riders in my club. In the 3 other clubs that I ride in quit often I still am one of the youngest riders.

Guess that is enough rambling for now. Want to thank you folks for your ideas and opinions. Its nice to be able sit at home and gather info from around the world with almost no effort on my part. That alone speaks volumes about the problem our little sport faces.

Aaron

[ridenm]

Good topic, Thanks to TY175 for alerting me. Here's a couple of observations after almost a year as president of our state club.

Hard copy newsletters do matter. While the young guys might be online enough to catch the buzz about trials, the old guys who are the backbone of the club still appreciate having bathroom reading material.

Skill level classes matter. We have been trying to balance having enough classes to keep people interested and safe with having few enough classes that they're not a burden to trialsmasters, our standings secretaries, and our trophy budget. We added a Senior Expert class this year for guys concerned about the danger level of Expert or recovering from injuries. It's been a qualified success. We may try to add a Senior Amateur class to give our older lower class riders somewhere other than Amateur to hang out and let the kids get a few more trinkets as they advance from Beg or Nov.

OSETs matter. TXT50s matter. Beta Juniors matter. TY80s matter. You want family-friendly fun? Gotta have bikes the kids can ride as they grow. Our importers and distributors don't always have the parts and tech info to keep these bikes running. Anything they and the clubs can do to support kids' bikes will have an impact.

Land access issues matter. Here in NM, we depend on public land for most of our events. We have ever-increasing obstacles to negotiate to placate land managers from BLM and Forest Service. Trials riders have not been easy to organize to participate in the politics of public land access. I wish I could mobilize half the number that show up for an event to also show up for a public meeting to protect our access. Or even to write letters or send e-mails or make phone calls. We've been doing OK but only because a core group of us has pushed the rest pretty hard to be aware of political matters. We're working on getting some private land. I worry that once we do we will give up on the public land entirely. It's understandable; who wants to hassle with special use permits when you've got your own place to go? But once we slack off, those public areas will disappear.

Service to the club matters. It's hard to find folks willing to give their time. When club members bitch about rules like enforcing spark arrestors, the volunteers on the receiving end say, "I don't need this crap." Having a service ethic is rare - there are not enough givers and too many takers. Our club has struggled to come up with trialsmasters, board members, even with observers. Your carrot has to be sweet and your stick has to be big and obvious. Everybody wants the club to host a National but finding the 90 or so FTEs (people to fill the various jobs needed to run a National) is tough. We are blessed with a strong national team but not everyone is gonna get to ride both days of a home event.

Our club membership is essentially flat right now. We'll see what happens with membership renewals after the new year. We've been doing some new things such as a Facebook page, but we really need to promote our events more widely. Trials is the cheapest of all the motorsports except for radio control racing, and there is a whole generation enthralled by extreme sports. Yet we can't get into X Games? We aren't widely known among young folks? Why is that? Because we, the old fogies of the sport, aren't finding ways to reach the X'ers. Speed TV has these street stuntas and FMXers - they should be ripe for learning about trials. Whatever the barriers, we need to find a way to break them down. It's just too cool of a sport to see it die from lack of exposure.

[hensley]

You need to also consider riders that need to move down the ladder due to age or injury. For example if I ride an advanced class and take scores in the 70s or 80s then move down to an intermediate class and win easily with a single digit score I'm left with a choice of beating myself up or riding boring sections and stealing trophies from lower level classes

3rd option riding non compete is a trophy that big of deal????