mozchops Posted February 6, 2005 Report Share Posted February 6, 2005 raga cabe fajardo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Well the Barcalona world high step championship got the desired results for the Spanish riders. Looking at the pictures the stands didn't look to be filled to capacity either, but like I, they probably knew what the result was going to be before the event started so why waste $ going to comfirm the fact. Unless the events are closer with sections setup for exciting tight competition, and not just to get a desired result for the locals, indoors too will get boring and poor spectator attendance, people don't mind paying to see a good show but they won't cough up for long to watch a procession. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outlaw dave Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 Hey Ishy That sounds a bit like "Sour Grapes" to me - I don't think the organizors upped the height of the sections just to eliminate the 4 strokes and after all Freixa is Spanish. Although Raga is winning, he is under the same pressure as any Champion and that includes Dougie - I say let the best man ( and bike) win. We should also note the exceptional ride by young Fajardo. - the thing that will keep the sport exciting is the " Changing of the guard" - a lot of people were fed up of Dougie winnig all the time. - English - Spanish - Jap -I don't care what they are - it's the same sport for everybody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 (edited) I'm not taking anything away from Raga, the man is at the top of his game, his win in Sheffield had some merit as did most of the other rounds, my point is the lad can win without the sections being tailored to shut the competition out. To me the results look to reflect this. Why do you think sour grapes, Sherco had a great result, and are having the best indoor season to date. As for Freixa being Spanish, this is what he had to say about the sections! [Marc Freixa: It was a trial event that from the very beginning you could see how difficult it was going to be for our new motorbikes. Most of the zones were heads or tails, in other words, zero or five points. We all generally made the same sort of mistakes, as a result, I stress, of the type of obstacles".] Edited February 7, 2005 by ishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 So basically what you are saying is the sections are too hard for the 4rt and should be made easier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted February 7, 2005 Report Share Posted February 7, 2005 YES!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Ishy: If your trying to say that a section can be designed to give a rider an advantage if he rides a 2stroke over a rider on a 4rt, then there is something terribly wrong here! I have heard everything now! Perhaps, there should be 4rt and 2rt lines in every trial now! The bike you ride is the bike you ride! I think it's going to really dumb to hear guys complain that they didn't win because the sections didn't cater to what type of bike they were on! Also, Raga is the best in the world hands down indoors, right now! I remember watching old videos of Dougie riding a Beta indoors and he was even farther ahead of the pack than Raga is now! No one complained then!! Fuji, Frexia and even Dougie over the last couple of years have clearly been a little behind indoors. Now coupled with trying to learn how to ride a totally new bike, they are lagging this year. It's silly to keep comparing the two bikes and which type of sections suit them better. Honda has made there decision to go with the 4rt this year. I don't think anyone expected them to rule the world right out of the gate. As well, it show's how good the 2rt's are really working too! Subtle changes every year are keeping them competitive. It's clear the Repsol team are perhaps a little frustrated with the transition to the new bike, but it's arguable if the results would be any different if they were on there old bikes! Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 [Q]Steve] If your trying to say that a section can be designed to give a rider an advantage if he rides a 2stroke over a rider on a 4rt, then there is something terribly wrong here! I have heard everything now! Perhaps, there should be 4rt and 2rt lines in every trial now! ] No sections can't be made to suit a rider or machine, what the **** must I be thinking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Raga and the other Spanish are riding indoor sections all the time as they have their own indoor championship in Spain through the outdoor close season, so they have an edge there. Having watched 3 of this year's indoor events on TV, the Toulouse round having just finished on Eurosport about 10 minutes ago, it is evident that the 4RT isn't as capable on the big splat type sections as the 2 strokes. It doesn't seem to have that immediate hit that they need to launch the bike into the air and onto the face of the obstacle. Either that or the three Mont boys have lost some of their ability on this type of section as they could do them before...... You only have to see Lampkin riding the other type sections to know this isn't true. So yes, if all sections are big splat attacks the 4RT will be at a disadvantage, therefore you can build sections to the advantage of the 2 stroke. And this is taking nothing away from Raga because he is bloody good, no doubt about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted February 8, 2005 Report Share Posted February 8, 2005 Thanks Woody, you got my point across better than I did. The Octagon report on the event says the same thing [Q] Dougie Lampkin failed when attempting the impressive hazard circuit. The Briton could perform in the most technical sections but it was impossible for him to succeed in the sections where more power of the machine was required [Q] Only Doug, Fuji, and Freixa are going to need this sort of power from the 4rt but it still paints a false picture of the bike, outdoors the technical side of the sections take care of themselves due to the fact it's natural terrain, I'm not saying they should eliminate all the big steps in indoor trials but at least add enough technical stuff to make the event interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtt Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Am I missing something? I haven't been able to watch any of this years Indoor rounds, being up here in the Great White North, but have the sections changed that much from last year? If not, why would anyone change them to suit a single brand of machine? Perhaps if everyone was on the same bikes, then this would be appropriate, but clearly that's not the case. If I was to go Superbike racing on an XR100, I wouldn't expect the organisers to make the track 30' long. You are right Ishy in that the tables will likely even out or turn when they get outdoors....then what? Should the sections be modified to provide more huge steps to even the odds for the 2 strokes? Don't count on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 After chatting with Ishy, I think his point came accross the wrong way! I agree with him that in any trial there needs to be variety, not only for the rider, but the spectator too! I don't buy into sections deliberately being designed for a 2-stroke. Now, if that is the case, why would I want to buy a 4RT?? It would appear that from comments like that, there are somethings that the 4RT can't do as well as the 2RT!! I have yet to ride one of the new 4RT's and I can say that I do look forward to it so I can comment honestly on what I think! It's exciting to have a choice for sure, just hope that we continue to have a choice! Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 Well keep diggin away lads, this sport could do with less sponsored riders and teams, hell GG as enough spare cash to pay all the top riders top $$$$$$$$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 You lost me on that one Ish! I guess sometimes it's better to talk face to face than one here! I've said before, as a sport I agree that things need to change. I would like to see the minder's eliminated and see what happens. Try to get back to the roots of the sport. From what I can see, GG,Sherco, and Beta have most to lose for the 4RT ruling coming into affect, not Honda/Mon, whatever you want to call them! It's fact that Mon/ Hon have paid big bucks to have Doug/Fuji/Frexia ride there bikes over the last few years! I doubt that the other factories could dare afford the likes of that team. Maybe a salary cap should be inforced onto all the factories to try and level the playing even more??? Shades of the NHL?) I guess it will be interestng to say the least to see what happens this year outdoors eh? Cheers, Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtt Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 You lost me on that one Ish! Me too I don't think a salary cap is the answer. I mean, these guys, even the likes of Dougie make nothing compared to top MXers and Roadracers, and their sports are thriving. Honda has the cash and political muscle to change things to their liking if they really wanted to...no fear, next year's (or the following year's) indoor rounds will likely look much different than present. I'm not against the technology of the 4rt at all. In fact I personally find it very impressive. I'm just not a big fan of the simple 2 stroke being muscled out, then changing sections to ensure they die a quick death. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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