ringo Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 It doesn't seem to have that immediate hit that they need to launch the bike into the air and onto the face of the obstacle. Either that or the three Mont boys have lost some of their ability on this type of section as they could do them before...... Remembering when I left the big bore 2 stroke for the XR years ago it was the thing to do. The rides the boys were embarking on were tailored to the the 'street legal' bike for sections and the xr technology had finaly created a bike that was ridable. I held on to my KTM 520 for a year then finally realized that I hadn't ridden it for a year. The only thing that I had given up was that hard hitting power that would take me up the monster hill climb much more effortlessly than the XR, some hill the XR simply wouldn't go up. Now were talking trials bikes. The trend is going to the 4 stroke. The 4 stroke doesn't have the same hard hit off the bottom that the 2 stroke does, DUH! Trials, however, has been progressing with sections each year that seem to defy the previous years. The progression of the sections are not going to slow down because some of the riders changed to a different bike. In time the 4rt technology will allow it to ge the hit of the 2 stroke but in the meantime it will have it's advantages and disadvantages. Look at supercross, there are more 4 strokes than ever before but the top guys are still on 2 strokes [at least in the 250cc class] Ishy is certainly right that sections can now be taylored to the different bike but, again, the spectators are looking for the boys to go bigger and bigger every year therefore it is going to take the hard hit of the 2 stroke to be competative indoor. I'm actually very surprized to see guys like Dougie move to the 4rt simply because of the difference in the bikes. They've had plenty of time to practice and realize that you simply can't do 'some' of the things that you can on the 2 stroke. Of course it could be strategy and we may find that Dougie and Fuji will have the outdoor advantage with the 4rt due to traction. All in all I believe that the 2 stroke will reign as an indoor champion and the 4rt may just be the outdoor bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coxy Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 obviuosly adam raga has been training hard and is very good indoors but look at him when he goes outdoors he isnt as good so what are you complaining at we cant all be good at both indoor and outdoor events and adams best event is indoors. also if the 4 stroke machines cant do he stuff that the two stroke machines are doing either go back onto a 2 stroke or up the performance of the 4 stroke until it can do the same sort of steps etc that the 2 strokers are doing. also the 4 stroke is new dont forget so a bike cant just come out and be perfect straight away. it takes time for any bike manufacturer to get a bike sort of spot on but there can still be things that need changing I THINK U ALL WAS EXPECTING TOO MUCH TOO SOON FOR THE 4 STROKERS!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 You lost me on that one Ish! Cheers, Steve I don't know how long JTT has been in trials Steve, but I do know you were in trials in the mid eighties, that was the last time HRC ran a works fourstroke trial team, not a bad year first year a second and third in the oudoor championship, and all looked set for them taking the championship the following season, then about this time of year when all the contracts with the other teams looked in place, Honda pulled the plug and walked away, leaving riders and a lot of other people scratching their heads as to what just happened. I don't think we will see the same happen again, but at this time they employ and put a lot of $$$$ into trials and I don't know! but would think the top sales of trials bikes would be GG and the other companies would close to the same, HRC Montesa, are good for trials whether you like that brand or not. The FIM set a date on four stroke machines only in championship comp for 05, with the 315 coming to the end of it's run and a new machine needed since it takes years to get to the comp stage why would you go any other way but 4t, JTT says they have the $ and political power to push change, they didn't push the dates back to who the hell knows when, it was the smaller companies applying the political power. In all sports the best way to get an advantage is play on your oppositions weakness, in trials this is hard to do because the companies don't have much say in the course, or do they? I think the result of the Barcelona event didn't tell the whole story even though the first two places look true to form, Dabster picked up on it and that was the margin of Fagardo against the other riders, T. Gaerade [spelling] only won one world event, only win for the TY mono yam also, after the first lap he came in with half the score of the rest of the field, it just happened to be on is home course, did it seem strange did he pre ride the sections? who knows but the form didn't weigh up. Why do the riders on pre course inspections start heaving big kickers into place or use anything they can find to try and alter the section to their advantage, it's on video as plain as day riders hacking away at stuff to change it, if influence on section design can be used don't you think it will? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 hell GG as enough spare cash to pay all the top riders top $$$$$$$$ That's a bit rich coming from somebody who at the Scottish had "heard a rumour about Gas Gas' imminent demise". Other than that I reckon, considering GG re-investmentment in the off-road sport that things are pretty tight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the artist formerly known as ish Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 (edited) Tim, thought you to be a bit sharper than that My bottom line on this topic was I don't think the results from last weekends indoor where a true reading of form. The next rounds could verify this one way of or the other. And no! I don't expect the first two places to alter just the overall results to be closer. Edited February 9, 2005 by ishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toofasttim Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 To be honest Ish, I'm not at all surprised by the present indoor results and, to my 5c down, I reckon that Raga's got the outdoor pinned too and that's the one that sells bikes. IMO Gas Gas are playing the overlap between the 2S and 4S rule rather well. Wait until Montesa/Honda have committed and hit 'em with a proven package. Montesa are a loss leader for Honda but a few years without a championship for Gas Gas can cost them dear. Regarding your statement about less sponsored riders and teams. I agree. Lets get back to W/C rounds with 100 entries. If you reckon you're up to it give it a bash (just sign the indemnity first!). I've watched MX go from a nice sport with some really great guys involved to one where you're laughed out of the pits if you're not wearing the right sneakers. Image is nothing it's results that count. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jtt Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 HRC Montesa, are good for trials whether you like that brand or not. There's something I will agree with you on Ishy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 9, 2005 Report Share Posted February 9, 2005 I think probably as much as anything else that we are not focusing on how good the works 315 really was. If doug was riding a standard 315 he probably would not do much better than the HRC4rt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulsher Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Right; like the other riders could do anything on a "Stock" Bike---Get Real! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Raga on a standard gasser dougie on a standard 4rt who is your money on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulsher Posted February 10, 2005 Report Share Posted February 10, 2005 Too close to call; how about in the outdoors? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cota kid Posted February 12, 2005 Report Share Posted February 12, 2005 (edited) A more interesting match would be Raga on a 4 stroke Gasser and Doug on his 4RT, indoors or outdoors. On this one my money would be on Doug. Everytime the 4RT competes in a Indoor round they edge away from their 4 stroke factory rivals, even though the learning curve it at times very steep. Edited February 12, 2005 by Cota Kid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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