What is classic trials ?

[pete_scorpa3]

I think we are getting bogged down with the word classic a little bit here.

No disrespect to anyone ready this, or to anyone in our club, but how many of 'us' are still going to be doing this (riding, setting out, observing etc) in 10 years time?...... or 20 years time?

If we want trials to continue, we do need youngsters to come into the sport. The youngest 'workers' in our club are all over 40 now. Some are over 70.

If changing the rules for modern events, or changing the machines, or putting on three routes helps to encourage new blood to take up trials, would it not be a good thing?

Real classic, (and I mean classic in the pre-65 sense) events will continue for some time and don't need messing with, I'm Clerk of the Course for a Miller Round and thoroughly enjoy our event, despite not being a classic machine owner myself. I ride round with the entry and do the sections on my Trail bike.

The sections are easier, the machines are less able and the rules are different (read 'like they used to be') I believe that using this formula (call it 'classic' if you like) for modern events really might work.

That's not saying we should allow/encourage modern bikes to enter pre-65 classic trials, but simply use a similar format for modern events.

Pete

[jon v8]

Sorry I didn't know it was closed shop, invertation only, modern trials dies off due to no bugger wanting to die trying it, and classic trials die off when the current crop of riders does.

Eee tha's a sad lot.

Dont think thats the case around here,my club - Bath classic does not have a schoolboy class as such,but there are plenty of young riders right down to ty80's.Have a look here at Golden Valley's classes; http://www.goldenvalleyclassicmotorcycleclub.co.uk/classes.html Now there is a sucessful club.

I think its all I said before,mostly that the sections are not stupidly tight or dangerous - its just good fun,simple as that.

[ishy]

Well OTF, didn't show me the secret hand shake or tell me how old a bike I would need, unobtainium or just rusty looking.

I started the topic to try and find out the appeal of Classic trials wondering if the style of event or bike could apply to getting more riders interested in the sport of trials.

[toofasttim]

I was looking at the rocks in the beck and how we could wind our way up and over all the rocks when one of em said, don

[huntmaster]

I expect it would be very difficult to get any consensus on "what is" classic trials from either a bike or a riding perspective! The definition certainly evolves over time... and if classic trials has little to do with modern events, it has almost as little to do with the classic events of years ago in my experience! The situation on this side of the pond is quite different of course, and I expect exacerbated by the lower particpation rate and rider base in North American trials. Perhaps an indicator of what could be in store for pre-65 (or even twinshock) events in the UK or the continent in years to come as classic bikes (and riders!) get older.

I started riding trials as a kid nearly (yikes) fourty years ago but left the sport before the monoshock era, only to come back riding twinshock events years later. I remember my Honda (and other period twinshocks) getting a dismissive "hurrumph" from some BSA and Triumph classic riders at the time! They obviously didn't consider the Honda "vintage"! B-40's, Cubs, C-15s, TR-5's, Bantams were plentiful, with a good smattering of Spanish two strokes as well. Japanese twinshocks were tolerated! Now, 20 years later most of those riders aren't active (or have moved to newer machinery) and all the old bikes are gone while overall classic numbers are well down. I'm the only guy riding a pre-65 bike locally.

Ironically, early air-cooled monos are 25 years old now (older then many of those British bikes were when I started riding classic events) yet some don't consider them vintage!

As for the riding aspect, as some have noted the classic stuff is practically a different sport from modern events...but I may have to consider that route to keep riding trials in these parts. The situation here is a bit different and classic events are in decline, or at least in transformation... as older bikes (and riders) disappear and newer ones show up. I do my best to avoid passing along my own "hurrumph" factor (I like the later bikes too) but have become a one-man show. Vintage series events could well end up being a "vintage class" at modern events, which will make it tough to accomodate everything from an air-cooled TY mono to my pre-65 lump!

For myself, the issue will be whether to go back to a 70's-80's twinshock bike (keeping the Ariel for shows, rally's and classic events) and riding familar classic-type lines, or to spring for a 4RT and try an all new sport...modern trials! I have to admit to considering the latter glorified stunt riding for many years, but I have become intruiged with it lately, while having a bit of a "been there, done that" feeling about the twinshock stuff. At 45, I better not wait too long I suppose!

Regards, Doug

[bilc0]

simply use a similar format for modern events.

I don't understand Pete,hav'nt modern events allways had the option of using non stop rules,thats all classic trials is,its quite simple just tell your riders on the day how the trial should be ridden.

Don't they call non stop in the modern bike world "Traditional Trials".

[old trials fanatic]

Nice bike. Strewth dont think i've ever seen a big bike dwarfed by it's rider before

[old trials fanatic]

Christ ! OTF.....should it read GOM.....Grumpy Old Man by the sounds of that lot!...note to self, not to ride any 'classic' trials in Derbyshire area

LOL

OK think i ought to explain myself. After reading back does come over a bit not what i meant.

The venue in question as many know was Burycliffe Quarry and the land owner didnt want us holding events there as we have a class for air cooled monos. I have to respect even if i dont understand that the point of view believe me we have argued it over a beer or three many times and will continue to do so hopefully we may get the venue back. thats what i meant by under review. Incidentally we added the class 1. because we are an ACU club and had to have the class at Centre Championship rounds so thought why not have the class all year. It's been poorly supported and some of the riders just left their twinshock at home and rode the aircooled mono so no more entries overall.

I have also noticed that locally, i wont and cant speak for the rest of the country, it is much much easier to obtain the usage of new or old venues that have been lost to trials for a while if you are a Classic Club. As usual then the modern clubs try to barge in but the landowners have been much more favourable to the Classic fraternity using their land than the modern clubs.

Why is that? well i remember this last summer sitting round a friends house talking bikes and having a beer, there is a trials venue behind his house, and i was disgusted to hear some of the abusive language and "attitude" coming out of the woods. The noise from the bikes was horrendous too. Needless to say the event was a "modern" one and complaints were made by the local villagers too. Now what sort of image does this present of the sport? I wont say our sport because i dissacociate myself from that lot. Does it promote a possative aspect to perspective newcomers? Would you want your offspring to take part in that environment ? As a landowner would you want that and the associated mess and carnage to your land ?

Modern trials needs to take a long hard look at itself and make and more importantly take some hard decisions or it wont have a future.

Bikes, rules, sections, attitude, ethos the list is almost endless but something must be done if the protagonists want to continue.

There has been talk of limiting the number of events, we have 12 next year BTW, on a day in the centre because of falling entries. So they think reducing the ammount of choice is the answer? I think not. As it has been said by many before "give them what they want and they will come". So why dont more modern clubs learn from the Classic Clubs, adding a class for pre65 or twinshocks doesnt count just to boost the funds it's STILL NOT a Classic Trial a couple of friends have the bruises and broken bits to prove it, instead of doing the same old same old? No idea i refer you to my earlier comment re dinosaurs.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Old trials fanatic

[pete_scorpa3]

I don't understand Pete,hav'nt modern events allways had the option of using non stop rules,thats all classic trials is,its quite simple just tell your riders on the day how the trial should be ridden.

Don't they call non stop in the modern bike world "Traditional Trials".

Yes. Non stop certainly is a start in the right direction (as far as this topic is concerned, lets not get into that specific debate in this thread) but as mentioned in earlier posts, a classic trial is different for many more reasons than just being non stop.

The rules are different, but so are the bikes, the sections and numerous other things. It's these differences that 'we' might do well to embrace in modern trials for the good of the sport, not for 2011 but for the future.

The six world championship riders can hop and bop and rev themselves up vertical mountain faces for the next few years, but without customers buying bikes to ride in local events on a Sunday morning, eventually there will be no trials.

We must explore ways of opening up trials to more people, especially younger ones.

Pete

[huntmaster]

Nice bike. Strewth dont think i've ever seen a big bike dwarfed by it's rider before

That's actually a 3/4 scale HT5!

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's.

Hi OTF.

Near enough spot on. Like you say most of it is the attitude of today's youth, in a throw away world, no respect, for there machine, if it is not brand new.(With all the added glitter).No respect, for other peoples property, No respect for the people who have put on the event for there pleasure? And most are in and out of the sport within a couple of years. The lads(lasses) with the right attitude, usually spend time, trying to update a older machine. and It is these Guy's who will eventually move on to the more social atmosphere of twin-shocks/ pre65, events.

Or would probably save up and buy, a proper trials bike with a seat if they were available. And events for new machines with twin shock absorbers at the rear????? were catered for. and were available.Sporting trials they were once named!!! [Manufacturers take note], you need to put a "Sporting Trials Bike" into your next catalogue.

Regards Charlie.

[bilc0]

We must explore ways of opening up trials to more people, especially younger ones.

Easy Trials seem to be making a big impact,Its amazing how a club can gather up 75 riders on a saturday afternoon for an easy trial,with a mixture of P65/TS and modern bikes carrying the very young to the very old with a nice relxed atmosphere around.

We allready know the answer,some of the modern trials are just to damn hard for 80% of the field,unless clubs seriously realise this there trials aint ever gonna be happy and the kids won't be coming through no matter what rules they use.

COC needs to be prepared to stick up 2 fingers to the other 20%.

[pete_scorpa3]

Easy Trials seem to be making a big impact,Its amazing how a club can gather up 75 riders on a saturday afternoon for an easy trial,with a mixture of P65/TS and modern bikes carrying the very young to the very old with a nice relxed atmosphere around.

We allready know the answer,some of the modern trials are just to damn hard for 80% of the field,unless clubs seriously realise this there trials aint ever gonna be happy and the kids won't be coming through no matter what rules they use.

COC needs to be prepared to stick up 2 fingers to the other 20%.

It is true that easy trials get good entries. 'Back in the day' we all rode one route and were happy to get round under 100 marks lost, that simply isn't the case now. The Midland Centre is finding this out to it's cost. It's no good putting on a B route, if only the Over 40 Experts ride on it.

[andy m]

I have wondered why no one hasn't built a new twinshock 125/ 250. I realise some small players have had a go ie Cotswold etc and there are frame kits but it may be a bit late now as bike sales in general are on their a***.

You can still buy twinshock road bikes and good ones too so why not trials ??

[jon v8]

It couldnt be too hard for Honda to start making TLR200's again,I think they would sell OK,esp if the price was good.(Would serve to hack off a few owners who paid silly money for them though.)