Clerk of Course

[bdmc]

A road based trial with 20 sections and 2 laps. Each rider has an individual start time. All the riders started at the correct time. After the 2nd lap has started 3 riders (riding together) get pulled by the police. He informs the competitors that until he has checked all the bikes they cannot leave the scene. All the bikes are checked and nothing is found to stop them continuing. The police allow the bikes to continue.

When the riders arrive at the time control they have incurred time penalties: Rider A 19mins, Rider B 21mins and Rider C 23 mins. They inform the time controller that they had been stopped by the police for approx. 20 mins, The time control allows them to ride the last section. The clerk of course is informed of the time controller

[jam]

Could you scap the time altogether?

[trialsuk]

A road based trial with 20 sections and 2 laps. Each rider has an individual start time. All the riders started at the correct time. After the 2nd lap has started 3 riders (riding together) get pulled by the police. He informs the competitors that until he has checked all the bikes they cannot leave the scene. All the bikes are checked and nothing is found to stop them continuing. The police allow the bikes to continue.

When the riders arrive at the time control they have incurred time penalties: Rider A 19mins, Rider B 21mins and Rider C 23 mins. They inform the time controller that they had been stopped by the police for approx. 20 mins, The time control allows them to ride the last section. The clerk of course is informed of the time controller

[bilc0]

also asks if the police had stopped riders A,B and C. The police confirmed this but did not remember the exact time the riders were held up but it was about 20mins

Mint.

I bet the Rozzers that stopped the 3 did'nt think they would have to give evidence at the end of the Trial.

[stevel]

This may appear harsh; but why should these riders receive exemption from the time limit just because they were stopped by the police?

Surely its just bad luck for these riders, just as having a puncture?

Once you start judging what is acceptable for exemption and what is not; then you are on the start of a slippery slope & a potential nightmare for officials

[pete_scorpa3]

Being stopped by the Police, which the Police themselves confirmed as an acceptable excuse in my opinion. Punctures and other machine failures, or simply getting lost is part of the event. Police intervention is not.

Credit them the 23 minutes.

[gii]

I'm not a clerk of the course, so I can't directly answer the question.

However, some points.

• I believe that under certain circumstances disobeying a traffic officer can be an offence, so I can understand the riders waiting until the police officers had finished with them.
  
• I don't believe that Police Officers have a right to waste your time, whatever they say.
  
• I believe that when a police officer states that he wishes to inspect your vehicle, you can state that now is not convenient and you will present your vehicle for inspection at a reasonable time in the future, eg tomorrow, or in 5 days time. Since no competing trials bike will pass inspection (European law defines a flat tyre as less than 10psi) remember this
  
• Trouble is it's really difficult to guarantee even brand a new trials bike will an pass MOT inspection when presented to a police MOT Inspe
  

ctor but think you can you can nominate your own reasonable (eg. council transportation dept) inspector.

• As a trials rider, I'd expect the clerk of the course to drop the time penalties
  
• This is just my opinion - when I observe I mark as I'd hope to be marked as a rider
  

This would be a great time for the metropolitan police 'motor club' to step up to the plate.

When I was involved in international rowing, 'the mets' had a rowing club and were very helpful in 'clarifying' the legal situation as to towing 65 foot boats behind cars / vans, I carried a laminated print of their 'clarification' in the car for years. I was pulled several times, but production of the laminated explanation always resulted in an instant reduction of interest from the involved officers.

Edited December 7, 2010 by GII

[totalshell]

i have seen this happen at an event and it involved one bike ironically on a two lap road based event. the CoC's exacts word were 'tough'! he argued that the timw allowanve was generous and everyone else had completed the course with plenty of time to spare.

[dan williams]

Several issues, if the cops stopped them for an offense then the penalty should stick. Since they apparently weren't cited and the cops came to hassle the event organizers it would appear somebody was just putting the screws to the event and I'd have to waive the time penalty for those riders. It's a tricky situation as the cops may have stopped them for being faster on the road as top riders tend to be or just the first three that that came to where the cops were. In either case if they were not breaking the law then it was a situation out of the rider's control (and up to the club to have cleared up with the local police before the event to be blunt) and the penalty should be waived similar to a reride. It sounds like it occurred at the end of the day nullifying the argument that the riders should have finished because all the others did. Smart riders will take the extra time and will usually finish close to the end time as a strategy. In that case the argument is moot.

[max1956bikes]

blimey.i would not want to decide on this one.you cannot win,either way.

[john collins]

Rider A finishes on 29

Ridere B & C are disqualified.

The fact that the police stopped them is not actually that different than if they had a puncture and could not fix it in reasonable time, or if something else happened to delay them.

One could argue that if the whole entry had some sort of delay eg a farmer denied access across his land and this made everyone take a 10 mile detour - this could be regarded as Force Majeure - and then the Clerk of Course may have to look at things ( amount of time this 10 mile detour should take etc) but three riders being stopped by the police I do not think can fall into this category

Tongue in cheek - If you are going on holiday - and flying from Gatwick - and get stuck on M25 - or police pull you in for check and you arriuve at RyanAir desk 5 mins after it closes - will they refund your money?

[chr155_d]

I would not even be considering whether or not to impose these time penalties!

Think what you would expect to happen if it was you in that position!?

They're observation scores should be irrelevent as it could have happened to any rider out there!!

For the reputation of the event and future fairness i would deem that as mitigating circumstances and waiver those time penalties!

The police backed up the fact they had stopped them so no cheating was taking place!

I imagine in future it would maybe be a better idea to invite the police along to the start of the event and invite them to inspect any vehicles, before the event commences! (obviously an ideal world scenario) But look at the ssdt where the authorities are aware of how well the machines are scrutinised! and they dont go around doing routine stops! just if your committing an offence!

[pete_scorpa3]

Rider A finishes on 29

Ridere B & C are disqualified.

The fact that the police stopped them is not actually that different than if they had a puncture and could not fix it in reasonable time, or if something else happened to delay them.

One could argue that if the whole entry had some sort of delay eg a farmer denied access across his land and this made everyone take a 10 mile detour - this could be regarded as Force Majeure - and then the Clerk of Course may have to look at things ( amount of time this 10 mile detour should take etc) but three riders being stopped by the police I do not think can fall into this category

Tongue in cheek - If you are going on holiday - and flying from Gatwick - and get stuck on M25 - or police pull you in for check and you arriuve at RyanAir desk 5 mins after it closes - will they refund your money?

John,

For once I don't agree with you on this one. Three riders out of the entry being stopped by the Police does I feel give them a genuine reason for exceeding their time limit. What would have happened if the Police delayed every rider in the trial by 23 minutes?

I feel that it is wrong to penalise the three who were stopped, especially as the Police themselves confirmed that fact.

The riders could hardly have continued until allowed by the Police.

Pete

[jimmyl]

2 of the riders would of had time penalties without being stopped so suggest they where running close to time limit anyway (possibly why they where stopped???).

As JC says its down to the rider to manage their own time and allow for contingency (be it puncture, traffic jam, or police intervention).

Nothing wrong with informing the Police of the event which I belive is normally done as a matter of course but inviting Police in at the start is like inviting the fox in to the hen house.

Even if bikes are taxed most insurance excludes trials, all No plates are illegal let alone horns, speedo, tyre pressures etc

[john collins]

Ah - now we are talking about some different things - all everyone states about it would have been better for police to do this or that is perfectly true - BUT , that is not the issue - the fact is that the police did what they did - you cannot alter that

The argument seems to be that this was out of riders control ie they could not be expected to know they were stopped by police? One could argue that - a rider could invite a stop - ( as someone did some years ago by apparently wheeling up a pavement) - or perhaps less dramatic, by having a poor rear number plate and so on - we do not know the circumstance why the police felt the need to stop them , all we know is that they did.

Now - if you are taking the view that if a rider gets "delayed" for reasons outside what you consider their control , it is very difficult to make a distinction between different things. While we are talking about 20 min