old trials fanatic Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 Question. I've had a question from a guy who has a Sprite trials bike in basically standard condition with an iron barreled Villiers 32A motor. He wanted to know if the Sprite was eligable for Pre65 events. Now i thought that Sprites were made from 65 onwards so they are most definately NOT eligable for Pre65 events. Not a problem to ride in our events as we dont have a Pre65 class any longer as i felt it was too much of a minefield so the class has been changed to British Bike but he was concerned taht his bike is or is not eligable for Pre65. Roy Bacons book seems to infer that as i said they are not eligable but canb anybody here give me a categorical answer? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 9, 2011 Report Share Posted January 9, 2011 They were defintely manufactured after 1965 so they aren't genuine Pre65 class eligible, definitely not Scotland. However, most clubs now run as Pre70 so it doesn't cause a problem. If a club is running a Pre65 class, a 2011 spec James/FB/Cub is ok, a genuine 1966 Sprite isn't. Oh the irony of Pre65 eh..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) welcome here http://www.yorksclassictrials.co.uk/#/rules/4543226075 and here http://www.redroseclassictrials.org.uk/regulations.html and hee http://www.poacherspre65trials.co.uk/club_rules.htm so thats at least 64 trials a year you could enter in. Edited January 11, 2011 by totalshell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) They were defintely manufactured after 1965 so they aren't genuine Pre65 class eligible, definitely not Scotland. However, most clubs now run as Pre70 so it doesn't cause a problem. If a club is running a Pre65 class, a 2011 spec James/FB/Cub is ok, a genuine 1966 Sprite isn't. Oh the irony of Pre65 eh..... Thats what i thought too Woody which is one of the reasons why we now run British Bike not Pre65 but i notice from the entry list for the Scottish Pre65 two day this year that they have allowed four Sprites to enter ??? now i am confused because that seems TOTALLY against the rules to let a bike manufactured after 31.12.1964 to enter a Pre65 event? I also agree with TrialsRfun comments and feel more clubs should adopt as we have British Bike or British Twinshock and drop the ridiculous Pre65 tag as Sprites, Cheetah etc are surely within the spirit. I've told the guy to come and ride at our events but am now wondering that my advice to him that his bike would NOT be eligable for the Scottish Pre65 is incorrect as they are letting them in. Better ring him up now and appologise. Edited January 10, 2011 by Old trials fanatic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 (edited) The many trials we ran were always 'British Bike' never P65, the P65 title should be dropped everywhere right away it is pointless. How can the Scottish P65 organisers refuse an entry to someone with a Greeves Anglian which is only marginally different to the earlier Scottish models while accepting entries from people riding newly built stuff with few original parts. I am not against the modernised bikes but there must be room in all events for both types of machine and for this reason all of the sections in all classic trials should be laid out so as to allow genuine British machines to be ridden competitively. Edited January 10, 2011 by TrialsRfun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pat slinn Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hi Guys, Dennis Jones (Jonna) was riding a Sprite in 1964. He was working in the BSA/Ariel development department, and was, if my memory serves me correctly Frank Hipkins development rider. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hi Guys, Dennis Jones (Jonna) was riding a Sprite in 1964. He was working in the BSA/Ariel development department, and was, if my memory serves me correctly Frank Hipkins development rider. But Pat were they commercially available before 31/12/1964 ??? because if not they are surely NOT elegable. If an exception is made for a "development" bike not commercially available then lets all wheel out "development" Bultacos I am sure you or Big John will know the answer to this. When was the first Sprite ridden in the Scottish 6 days trial and as a matter of interest when was the first Bultaco ridden in the Scottish also 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swisha Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 But Pat were they commercially available before 31/12/1964 ??? because if not they are surely NOT elegable. If an exception is made for a "development" bike not commercially available then lets all wheel out "development" Bultacos I am sure you or Big John will know the answer to this. When was the first Sprite ridden in the Scottish 6 days trial and as a matter of interest when was the first Bultaco ridden in the Scottish also Hi guys my first post so bear with me. I have a Sprite that was purchased in November 1964. I have the origional log book and receipt for the frame kit from Sprite dated 6-11-64. So they were commercially available at that time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hi guys my first post so bear with me. I have a Sprite that was purchased in November 1964. I have the origional log book and receipt for the frame kit from Sprite dated 6-11-64. So they were commercially available at that time In which case i bow to your superior knowledge. The organisers of the Scottish knew their onions better then i and i will pass this on to the Sprite owner who contacted me 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broony Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Why don't they just call the Pre 65 class "Classic Trials"? cheers the noo Brian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 10, 2011 Report Share Posted January 10, 2011 Hi guys my first post so bear with me. I have a Sprite that was purchased in November 1964. I have the origional log book and receipt for the frame kit from Sprite dated 6-11-64. So they were commercially available at that time That seems fairly conclusive then, they were available before 1965, which contradicts everything I have been told about when they were manufactured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greeves Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 (edited) My understanding of the P65 title is that AMC stopped production of AJS & Matchless models during 1964, a friend owned for many years one of the last 350cc AJS made reg no ATV 350B. Ariel had long since ceased production of their single cylinder four stroke likewise BSA with the Goldstar. In 1965 Bultaco started to produce the Sherpa, all the early trials for classic machines were for four strokes only so P65 was deemed ok. All very well & good but what about the two strokes which were produced until around 1970 with the Villiers engines fitted. To this day the P65 title has caused trouble when organising a classic trial so surely it is time to change the name of our classic events. Edited March 2, 2013 by trialsrfun 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted January 11, 2011 Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 My understanding of the P65 title is that AMC stopped production of AJS & Matchless models during 1964 a friend owned for many years one of the last 350cc AJS made reg no ATV 350B. Ariel had long since ceased production of their single cylinder four stroke likewise BSA with the Goldstar. In 1965 Bultaco started to produce the Sherpa, all the early trials for classic machines were for four strokes only so P65 was deemed ok. All very well & good but what about the two strokes which were produced until around 1970 with the Villiers engines fitted. To this day the P65 title has caused trouble when organising a classic trial so surely it is time to change the name of our classic events. Yes indeed, the Pre65 title was purely to prevent the Bultaco and then the Ossa and Montesa that followed, from competing in classic events. A far better definition is British Bikes Pre70 which has long been adopted by some clubs and national series. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted January 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted January 11, 2011 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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