Route marking

[big john]

Hey...wait a minute, at least the ACU are giving some guidance on this! It is recommended not compulsory, so when it is time to replace the markers a club already has, then they buy those that will give them a consistent route system, surely that is a step in the right direction?

In Scotland, we can use up to four routes with: Red (Premier/hardest); Blue (Sportsman); Green (Clubmen) and Yellow (Youth & Beginners). OK, the same issues were muted when we introduced this system in 2009, but riders got on with it and it has pretty much been adopted by all SACU clubs as and when they have replaced their own markers.

The riders like it because it is a uniform system and easy to follow. It did take a little while to get away from the old - red on right, blue on left (which has been retained by the SSDT, as they have a one route section system anyway, makes sense).

Another thing, why didn't clubs make some sort of suggestion to the ACU Trials and Enduro committee if you say they don't listen to the right people? Our system came directly from the grass roots of trials, the riders themselves and some SACU clubs, we listened, I'm sure our colleagues at the ACU would have done similar!

Big John

Edited January 25, 2011 by Big John

[old trials fanatic]

LETS JUST GO BACK TO ONE ROUTE - PROBLEM SOLVED !!!!

IT WORKED OK IN THE 70`S

Trouble is mate that people now expect not to loose 120 + marks in a trial. I know, just my personal view btw, that if i was loosing that sort of marks or realistically anything over 40-50 i would probably just stop and do something else. The world has moved on and riders want a challenge but not impossabilities. "if you dont ride hard trials you dont get better" heard that before too many times. Approaching 60 i dont think i ever will or even care now. Just want an enjoyable ride like most people so unfortunately one route is a non starter. well unless you want 70% of the entry tied on clean

[old trials fanatic]

We are lucky as the colours we have in use now are the same as the new system, more or less, so it won't make any difference to us.

Won't the same apply with yourselves?

It's the arrows issue really plus our flags are all individual pennants on a single wire stalk.

Suppose we could get round it but the expense, i do like your markers btw, worries me and if i had to replace the flags tomorrow the as the club doesnt have the money it would have to fold.

[pete_scorpa3]

It's the arrows issue really plus our flags are all individual pennants on a single wire stalk.

Suppose we could get round it but the expense, i do like your markers btw, worries me and if i had to replace the flags tomorrow the as the club doesnt have the money it would have to fold.

Although pairs of arrows are the ideal, it's perfectly acceptable to use pairs of squares, or sticks or whatever you have providing they are the correct colour and the course setters try to make sure the 'pairs' are obvious.

There's nothing worse than getting through a long section to be told you've gone the wrong way through the wrong pair of markers; that's where arrows really help.

I think it's a good move by the ACU and long overdue.

[charlie prescott]

Hi Guy's,

Makers pointing in, a good idea.

What you seem to be missing (Tree Wood senario) is the obvious way to finance new markers for a club in this modern world!!It is to get a sponsor's name put onto these, little objects, every photo of every machine would have the sponsor's name on it somewhere, agreed? You used to see Dunlop on every thing at one time.

Regards Charlie.

[02-apr]

Hi Guy's,

Makers pointing in, a good idea.

What you seem to be missing (Tree Wood senario) is the obvious way to finance new markers for a club in this modern world!!It is to get a sponsor's name put onto these, little objects, every photo of every machine would have the sponsor's name on it somewhere, agreed? You used to see Dunlop on every thing at one time.

Regards Charlie.

The problem is the sponsor's name is on the old ones! They don't necessarily want to pay again.

Also, it's only possible to carry so many markers on a bike, doubling or trebling the amount makes it hard for the section markers in a decent (ie good run over the moor) trial.

[dabber]

In an ideal world all clubs would do the same thing, but clubs have evolved over time down different methods of marking.

Only comment I would make on the grading of red/blue down to white is that the class with the biggest number of competitors should have the red/blue marking with the others marked outside of that. Darwen club do this and it works well.

In terms of cost flags ARE mass produced already - seeMass produced flagsmost clubs I've ridden at make them themselves even cheaper than that.

[majdaz]

Reckon it would cost us i.r.o.

[old trials fanatic]

In an ideal world all clubs would do the same thing, but clubs have evolved over time down different methods of marking.

Only comment I would make on the grading of red/blue down to white is that the class with the biggest number of competitors should have the red/blue marking with the others marked outside of that. Darwen club do this and it works well.

In terms of cost flags ARE mass produced already - seeMass produced flagsmost clubs I've ridden at make them themselves even cheaper than that.

Good point in which case the Clubman at our Trials far outnumber the rest so they should have the red and blue flags

Probably be the same at many clubs. As it should be.

[old trials fanatic]

Dont know if im missing something here but when me and the rock god used to set out for peak classic red/blue was always for the hard route and yellow for the clubmen.

When the 50/50 was introduced we just wrote in marker pen on the start cards.no extra markers needed

all three colours where in abundance.

all is needed now is a few extra white markers which the club already have.

I dont think ive ever rode white for expert route other than peak classic. Its not a problem just different to everyone else.

Most of the centers we ride in the summer ie yorkshire/south west/north west etc all expert red/blue, clubmen yellow, novice white or anywhere in the taped area.

That goes for modern or classic.

Good point and i will try to get Martin to authorise us buying some more flags and introducing the "recommended" ACU route marking without the arrows for the next season 2012/2013

As you know this coming season we are droping the 50/50 route as a lot of the riders feedback was that 50% of sections were a waste of time, the Clubman ones, while 50% were about right, the Expert ones. So that is why we are droping the 50/50 and introducing a true Intermediate route which for the time being will be marked by red and blue flags. Then we need to have a Clubman route so as now we have a yellow deviation. Then we need an Expert route so we now have the white deviation.

Once i get Martin to unlock the purse i will try to fall into line with the ACU recommendations minus the arrows.

So for the time being please bear with us. I must admit i didnt realise you could get flags that cheap.

[crasher]

We are lucky as the colours we have in use now are the same as the new system, more or less, so it won't make any difference to us.

Won't the same apply with yourselves?

those markers don't look real to me, have they been photo shopped over an existing photo?

[pete_scorpa3]

those markers don't look real to me, have they been photo shopped over an existing photo?

I couldn't find a real photograph that shows the system we use.

[pete]

Morning all.

The markers we've always used down here in the South East have been in pairs.

Easiest: Yellow pairs

Inter: Red Pairs

Difficult: Blue Pairs

Frickin insane suicidal type stuff: White pairs

One club used to use blue for easy, then yellow then red which got a bit confusing at first, now they're in line with the other clubs.

I for one find pairs of like colours much easier to use. I gues it uses a lot of markers, maybe more than some methods, but when walking and riding the sections it's much easier to aim between the pairs. At least I think so!

I must say though, I've not yet helped with laying out a trial so I don't know what it's like from that point of view. What with working Saturdays and living 50+ miles away I can't get feasibly get down there. It's not lack of willing, just logistics!

Just my tuppence worth!

Pete.

[old trials fanatic]

One of the problems when using pairs is it can sometimes be confusing as to which pair to ride through at least on the first lap. Depending on how twisty and tight the section you then have to link the flags by tape to make it obvious but that can also get messy at times which is why one colour for left and one for right was the norm in the days when the world was black and white and we all rode one route. I accept that there should be consistency across the country just that people get used to "doing it their way" and most just ride in centre and cant afford to travel around the country to other centre events.

[tricky dicky]

We currently use red and blue for the intermediate route with the experts following the white deviation and the clubman following the yellow deviation.

Which is the main route then? Surely the hardest route is the main route and the others are deviations?

In your trials do you follow the intermediate route then follow the deviations then back to the inter route? As far as I am aware and it has been for as long as I have been riding the main route is always red and blue flags. Some clubs I have ridden at seem to think the middle route is the main route, I am confused how that ever works!

How do you lay out a tight corner when you use the same coloured flags? In my experience I get there when the expert route has a deviation onto white or yellow and its just a jumble of flags. I'm not getting at you i'm just wondering what the logic is behind it as its far easier to mark a deviation from red and blue flags than pairs of the same colours.