ishy Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 After reading this I looked for a local station, they are out there google for ethanol free gas Prohibit Ethanol Blending In All Premium Unleaded Gasoline Every mandatory E10 state has exemptions to their blending law, because there are a number of piston engine applications that should not, and some that cannot, use ethanol blended gasoline. Unfortunately the exemptions are not uniform. They vary from only one exemption in Washington, aircraft, to a universal exemption of premium unleaded in Missouri. All states exempt aircraft usage, but most states like Oregon and Washington make it almost impossible to get unblended gasoline. Oregon is the only state that allows for unblended regular and premium gasoline for the exemptions, and then makes it almost impossible to get any unblended gasoline. All other mandatory ethanol states just allow clear premium unleaded gasoline for the exempted classes. The following piston engine applications should not use ethanol blended gasoline: Any 2 cycle engine used in tools, watercraft, snowmobiles, etc., or small 4 cycle engines. Any engines used in an emergency stationary engine application like a generator or a pump, especially in a humid climate. All watercraft. Ethanol blended gasoline should never be used in a marine environment. Antique and classic cars and classic motorcycles. All aircraft. All of these users must be able to get ethanol free (E0) gasoline. If you live in a state without a mandatory ethanol blending law, you have no exemptions, ethanol will eventually be blended into all of your unleaded gasoline and there is no requirement in EISA 2007 to label gas pumps with ethanol content. If ethanol is the holy grail of clean air and energy independence why does it require government mandate with corporate welfare payments? What is it about ethanol that it can't compete in a free market. For the past 20 years the ethanol industry has gotten corporate welfare from state and federal subsidies and tax credits and it is still not a profitable business without your tax dollars. By the end of 2012 the unintended consequences of EISA 2007 will take every drop of gasoline in the country E10 causing serious economic damage to the marine and aviation industry and endangering public safety users who rely on portable tools. Your only option is to contact your state legislators and tell them how E10 is affecting you and ask them to pass legislation to prohibit the blending of ethanol into premium unleaded gasoline intended for sale anywhere in your state. If you need information with references to frame arguments against ethanol blending please look at the Talking Points section of this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 Very interesting and across this side of the pond we dont seem to have any choice. Question apart from rotting glass fibre tanks what is the big problem with blended fuels. I ask because i want to know because i have no idea. One of the riders, actually three, use avgas but all i know is if i am behind them in a queue for a section their exhaust makes my eyes sting like it's stripping my eyeballs. Always wondered about that one. So can anybody explain what the problem is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldbanjo Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 (edited) I have been fighting with ethanol blended fuel in the Cincinnati area for years. The first problem we had was when my uncles muscle cars got stored for winter - and then every spring we had to replace the accelerator pump diaphragms as the rubber had somehow dissolved over the winter. Then the ethanol blended fuel started doing the same things to the fuel pump diaphragms in the Briggs and Stratton engines - the little check valve flaps would be shriveled up. My uncles antique cars started to have problems with the copper,brass and bronze fuel system parts corroding and getting a green gell lodged in the fuel system. Then the unlined steel fuel tanks in my motorcycles started rusting inside and the aluminum carbs started getting corroded in the float bowls. The latest problem I had was my 2009 Sherco fuel tank swelled and started pushing the rear fender back after only 4 months. I have found a source of 100LL Avgas at a local airport that is self serve - but after trying Avgas for about a year I found that it runs richer than normal fuel and it take me about 1.5 hours round trip to get the Avgas....it just wasn't worth the effort. Since then I have found a local Bulk Distributor that sells unblended 87 Octane gasoline to farmers to store in their above ground tanks that they use for their farm equipment - the only problem is I have to buy 100 gallons at a time! I have most recently bought 10 gallons of 96 Octane Shell racing fuel and I am going to try it in my Sherco. I believe the EPA cares little about our problems - they don't care if our older equipment is damaged as they would prefer we stop using the old equipment and buy newer engines that are more in compliance with their imposed regulations. Edited February 8, 2011 by 1oldbanjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
overlandtrail Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I am not sure of the difference between Avgas and Racing Fuel, but I think you are on the right track. I have religiously used racing fuel (110 octane) since the early 90's and have never had a problem with the tank, fuel line or carb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldbanjo Posted February 8, 2011 Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 I am not sure of the difference between Avgas and Racing Fuel, but I think you are on the right track. I have religiously used racing fuel (110 octane) since the early 90's and have never had a problem with the tank, fuel line or carb. Avgas 100LL is not made by refining petroleum - it is blended using generally about 70% Alkylate, 15% Isopentane, 15% Toluene - the additives of lead, Dyes, Scavnegers and Antioxidants. It is really cool for storage as it will not gum anything up and evaporates with no residue. It will keep a long, long time - which is important for aircraft that can remain in storage for long periods of time. It runs richer than pump gas and if you don't rejet your engine will run too rich - and this is especially noticeable in the 2 cycle engines. When I have used racing fuel I have not noticed the engine running too rich. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 This site may help in the US http://pure-gas.org/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ishy Posted February 8, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2011 More than you think in Oregon alone, one even in Boring. Stations in Oregon (printer-friendly version) City Brand Octane Name Street Address GPS* Albany SHELL Courtesy Corner Shell 1515 Calapooia St. SW N44.62542 W123.10902 map details Ashland UNBRANDED 92 Ashland Pacific Pride cardlock 120 Lowe Rd N42.22716 W122.74234 map details Baker City UNION 76 Black Distributing 2150 Broadway St N44.77815 W117.83263 map details Baker City SINCLAIR 91 Humbles Car Wash 2500 Cedar St. N44.78171 W117.82222 map details Bend UNBRANDED 91 Butler Market Store 61396 SE 3rd St not available map details Bend UNBRANDED 91 Quickway Market 690 NE Butler Mkt. Rd N44.07623 W121.29536 map details Bend SHELL 91 Red Carpet Car 1144 NE 3rd Street N44.06141 W121.30253 map details Boring UNBRANDED 92 C F N Boring 28300 SE HWY 212 N45.43192 W122.37199 map details Brownsville UNBRANDED 91 Brownsville Body Shop S. Main & Hwy 228 not available map details Canyon City SHELL Jackson's Shell (Pasific Pride) North Canyon city Blvd not available map details Canyonville UNBRANDED 91 Penny Pincher 385 North Main Street N42.93180 W123.28053 map details Carlton UNBRANDED 92 Carlton Corners 150 N. Yamhill Street N45.29529 W123.17965 map details Cheshire UNBRANDED 92 Low Pass Market 22501 Highway 36 N44.18810 W123.45365 map details Christmas Valley CHEVRON Christmas Valley Market 87497 Christmas Valley Hwy not available map details Coburg UNBRANDED 92 Fuel-N-Go 33100 Van Duyn Road N44.13710 W123.04233 map details Coos Bay UNBRANDED Englewood Market 1434 Southwest Boulevard N43.35183 W124.22427 map details Coos Bay UNBRANDED TNT Market 899 D Street N43.36454 W124.19007 map details Corvallis PACIFIC PRIDE 92 Oberson Oil South 3rd Street not available map details Cottage Grove UNBRANDED 92 Welt & Welt Inc. 290 Palmer Ave N43.80007 W123.03475 map details Crescent Lake Junction UNBRANDED 92 Crescent Lake Jct. Store Hwy 58 not available map details Culver / lake billy chinook UNBRANDED 92 Lake Chinook Village Store SW Jordan Road N44.51928 W121.32060 map details Dallas UNBRANDED 91 Lee's Auto Service 120 E. Ellendale N44.92962 W123.31204 map details Detroit UNBRANDED 92 River's Run 105 Breitenbush Road N44.74099 W122.14981 map details Elgin UNBRANDED 91 O&M Gas and Groceries 395 Albany St N45.56570 W117.91328 map details Elkton UNBRANDED 93 Elkton Station 14940 State Highway 38 N43.63738 W123.56834 map details Eugene UNBRANDED 92 Curtis Serve and Save (Farwest Solvents) 885 Highway 99N N44.07135 W123.14360 map details Eugene UNBRANDED 92 Tyree Oil 1355 W 1st N44.05895 W123.11361 map details Grants Pass UNBRANDED 92 Fireball Gas 1044 NW 6th Street N42.44877 W123.32280 map details Grants Pass UNBRANDED 92 Grants Pass Pacific Pride 505 Rogue River Hwy N42.42548 W123.32861 map details Grants Pass UNBRANDED 92 U-Save Gas & Tackle 935 Rogue River Hwy N42.42340 W123.32126 map details Halfway UNBRANDED 92 Halfway Feed & Seed 281 S. Main N44.87510 W117.10800 map details Harper UNBRANDED 92 coleman sernice 3459 hwy 20 N43.85737 W117.60016 map details Hermiston UNBRANDED 92 Heller & Sons 615 N 1st Street N45.84474 W119.29022 map details Hines SINCLAIR 94 Hines Market Hwy 20 not available map details John Day CFN 91 Triangle Oil 706 S Canyon Blvd N44.40857 W118.95038 map details Junction City CFN 92 Jerry Brown Intersection Hwys 99 and 36 not available map details Klamath Falls TEXACO Clough Oil 5800 S 6th N42.20646 W121.71789 map details Klamath Falls UNBRANDED 93 Ezell-Suty Fuel 2360 S 6th St N42.21297 W121.76070 map details Klamath Falls UNBRANDED 87 92 Ferrels fuel Spring st not available map details Lacomb UNBRANDED Snow Peak Station 41494 Lacomb Drive N44.58461 W122.74429 map details LaGrande TEXACO 92 The Gas Station LLC 1508 Adams Avenue not available map details LaPine UNBRANDED 92 Gordy's Truck Stop 17045 Whitney Rd not available map details Lebanon UNBRANDED 91 Lebanon State Airport (S30) 1600 Airway Rd. N44.53102 W122.92782 map details Lorane UNBRANDED 92 Lorane Family Store 80301 Territorial Highway N43.83748 W123.23833 map details maupin CHEVRON 92 richmond's service 511 deschutes st N45.10217 W121.04235 map details Medford UNBRANDED Medford Fuel 936 S Central N42.31811 W122.86502 map details Medford SPIRIT 87 92 Spirit Station 1325 Court St. N42.34340 W122.88051 map details Mill City UNBRANDED 91 Santiam Gas Hwy 22 not available map details Milwaukie UNBRANDED 91 Olson Bros Tire Factory 14115 SE McLoughlin N45.42100 W122.63315 map details Monmouth UNION 76 87 92 Pacific HIghway Auto Care 112 Pacific Avenue North N44.84854 W123.22937 map details Myrtle Creek UNBRANDED 92 Penny Pincher Gasoline 548 South Main Street N43.01967 W123.29423 map details Myrtle Point UNION 76 92 Union 76/Hodge Distributor 1893 Roseburg Rd. N43.05228 W124.13034 map details Newport CHEVRON South Beach Fuel Dock 2120 Southeast Marine Science Drive N44.61923 W124.04939 map details North Bend UNBRANDED 92 Wagon Wheel Grocery 69845 Wildwood Road not available map details Powell Butte UNBRANDED 92 powell butte country store hwy 126 not available map details Redmond SHELL 91 Shell 722 NW 6th St. N44.28224 W121.17419 map details Roseburg OK GAS 93 OK's Auto Gas 1082 NE Stephens N43.22246 W123.34637 map details Roseburg UNBRANDED 92 RIVER FORKS MARKET 4342 Garden Valley Road N43.26228 W123.40431 map details Salem UNBRANDED 92 Marc Nelson Oil Products 1977 Claxter Road NE N44.98613 W123.00579 map details Salem UNBRANDED 92 Quality Gas 2385 Salem Dallas Hwy NW N44.93149 W123.07692 map details Scio UNBRANDED Clevenger's Automotive 38955 Highway 226 N44.70345 W122.84881 map details Shady Cove UNION 76 92 Shady Cove 76 21882 Hwy 62 N42.61587 W122.81118 map details Siletz UNBRANDED 93 Siletz Mini Mart Hwy 229 not available map details Springfield UNBRANDED 92 Mathers Market 38477 McKenzie Highway N44.05370 W122.84225 map details stayton UNBRANDED 91 pacific pride null N44.80068 W122.79453 map details Sutherlin SHELL 92 Shell 138 Hutchins street N43.38605 W123.33940 map details Talent CHEVRON Chevron Valley View Road N42.23502 W122.74197 map details tangent WILCO 92 Wilco 33685 Hwy 99E N44.55994 W123.10992 map details Tangent UNBRANDED 91 Wilco hwy 99 not available map details Tangent WILCO 91 Wilco Farm Store 33685 Hwy 99E not available map details The Dalles UNBRANDED 91 East Side Veltex 2702 E. 2ed Street not available map details The Dalles UNBRANDED 91 East Side Veltex 2702 E. 2ed not available map details Tillamook UNBRANDED 93 Idaville Corner Market 7495 Alderbrook Road N45.50970 W123.86529 map details Tillamook UNBRANDED 87 92 South Prairie Store 6730 S Prairie Rd N45.40677 W123.82018 map details Tillamook SHELL 87 Tillamook Shell and Grocery 15 main ave N45.45861 W123.84414 map details Tygh Valley UNBRANDED 92 Tygh Valley General 57723 Tygh Valley Rd. N45.24803 W121.17376 map details Umatilla UNBRANDED 92 Price Less Gas Inc. 711 6th Street N45.91701 W119.34472 map details wamic UNBRANDED 91 wamic market wamic market road not available map details Wamic UNBRANDED Wamic store 57016 Wamic Mkt Rd. not available map details white city UNBRANDED 92 White City Pacific Pride 2094 Antelope Rd N42.42731 W122.85354 map details White City UNION 76 92 White City 76 7640 Crater Lake Hwy N42.42625 W122.85011 map details Winchester Bay UNBRANDED 92 Salmon Harbor Marina 100 Ork Rock Rd. N43.67912 W124.18513 map details Winston UNION 76 93 Winston 76 391 SW Main N43.11688 W123.41492 map details Wolf Creek UNBRANDED 92 Wolf Creek 76 221 Old Hwy 99 not available Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 I am not sure of the difference between Avgas and Racing Fuel, but I think you are on the right track. I have religiously used racing fuel (110 octane) since the early 90's and have never had a problem with the tank, fuel line or carb. I too have only used race fuel in my bikes since the 90's, especially my fiberglass tanked TY. Not sure about Ethanol, but have a lot of experience with Methanol and it is quite corrosive and must be flushed from the complete system before storing the race cars for any length of time. Not quite sure what the advantage is, environmentally, for Ethanol, as I understand it takes a little over a gallon of fossil fuel to produce a gallon of Ethanol. Fertilizer, tractor fuel, processing etc. and trucking as it has to be batch shipped rather than in long distance lines. I always figured Ethanol was for drinking, not driving...... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beta_trials Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 I have never cared for the idea of ethanol. In my opinion its a waste of time and its not a efficient fuel source even when mixed at least the last time i checked. There is so much of a better use for corn. On a side note - I run regular unleaded fuel and mix my own 2stroke oil into it at the pump. Just what types of fuels is ethanol getting blended into? Should I switch and start running a higher octane? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovita Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 More than you think in Oregon alone, one even in Boring. /quote] I checked the Washington list and it is way out of date. There are stations listed that I know no longer have ethanol free gas. Hopefully Oregon is in better shape. I'm going to check Idaho next. When I fill my truck in ID I get 2 MPG more than when I fill in WA. And it's cheaper in ID as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldbanjo Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 (edited) I run regular unleaded fuel and mix my own 2stroke oil into it at the pump. Just what types of fuels is ethanol getting blended into? Should I switch and start running a higher octane? Buying higher octane does not gaurantee it to be ethanol free. A local motorcycle shop used to drive to the next county south to get fuel as they felt is was ethanol free - when I tested it they were wasting their time as it had ethanol in it. The fuel delivery truck was there when I arrived and I talked to the driver, and he told me that all grades of their fuel are blended 10% with ethanol....and every station receives the same blends in this area. (He did tell me their plant sells 87 Octane gasoline to farms that is not blended and I got the phone number for the plant and I now use that fuel). The only way to know for sure of the fuel has ethanol is to test the fuel. You can buy test kits - but any plastic soda bottle will work just fine. I use a 20 oz. soday bottle and I put a piece of tape about 2" up from the bottom. Fill the soda bottle with water to the top of the tape - you want the water level exactly level with the tape. Then fill the bottle with the fuel you want to test, put on the lid and shake for a few seconds. When you set the bottle down the fuel and water will be all frothy then the water will settle down to the bottom. If there is no ethanol in the fuel it will sink to the bottom and the water level will be right at the top of the tape line. If there is ethanol in the fuel the water level will have risen above the tape line - the water absorbs the ethanol out of the fuel and increases in volume. Edited February 9, 2011 by 1oldbanjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htrdoug Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Countrymark fuels specifications Looks like countrymark has two grades of ethanol-free fuel,a 87 octane and a 91 octane,to which they add ethanol to bump up the rating.Not available at all their stations,not a national chain,but check with the local farmers and I bet you can find something comparable. I think we had this discussion recently. Ethanol really only causes trouble if the fuel sits for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beta_trials Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Ok so what if i want to switch to running av gas. what are its benefits. I just looked at the price for it here and i can get it for 4 bucks a gal. would this be better than running unleaded? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldbanjo Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 Ok so what if i want to switch to running av gas. what are its benefits. I just looked at the price for it here and i can get it for 4 bucks a gal. would this be better than running unleaded? Good Points: Stays fresh for years. Will not gum up or corrode anything. Good Octane rating. Bad Points: Runs rich and may require re-jetting for best performance (which means if you make the adjustments and happen to put a tank of pump gas in you may then be running lean). Contains lead - the Low Lead is misleading as it contains as much lead as the old High Test pump gas used to - but it is low compared to what other Aviation fuels use. It is made for low rpm (2,400 - 2,800 rpm engines) and may not run all that well in performance engines without timing and rejetting. I used Avgas 100LL in my chainsaws for a year and finally stopped. Even after mixture adjustments they didn't idle all that well, and the performance was not any better than pump gas. I think the Torco and other racing fuels that you can usually find at gas stations around drag strips runs better than Avgas and doesn't require mixture adjustments. I just found a source for Sunoco 96 Octane racing fuel and it works very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beta_trials Posted February 9, 2011 Report Share Posted February 9, 2011 So i would be better off trying to find race fuel in other words Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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