hoggyf Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I might regret asking this but..... I was watching a you tube vid the other day of some guys green laning and they were really struggling with a long hill climb, ground was dry but steep and heavily rutted, tree roots etc and while they were struggling it looked like something I would climb up on the trials bike easily (and I'm crap as!!) This led me to wondering why its so hard on a trail bike/enduro, the tyres are as good if not better (wet grass, mud use etc) so is it the additional weight, the gearing not being as low as on a trials bike or is it the frame geometry and physical size that prevents you trickling up finding the grip? I've done a little bit of greenlaning yrs ago so should probalby know but it doesn't seem obvious whats the difference, the only other thougth I had was that with the higher overall gearing on an enduro bike that when you adjust the throttle by a small amount it has a greater efect on the rear tyre. What do you guys think or should I just go and have another beer?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 Could just be ability, or lack of. I'le have a Titanic Stout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsmotopat Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 I'd imagine tyres - typically 8psi and more knobbles on mx = less contact patch centre of gravity - lower on trials bike weight - lower on trials bike hill climbing as a sport is against a clock so they use some pretty powereful beasts in the states. I recon most of the stuff I've seen is a lot easier on a trials bike but at a slower pace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted February 18, 2011 Report Share Posted February 18, 2011 There are a lot of factors to consider when comparing a trail/enduro bike to a trials bike. Firstly and as mentioned above ability. Some riders on a big heavy bike will still beat others regardless of their machine. I have been beaten many times by good riders on twin shocks and even pre-65 machines, even though I was on a modern trials bike. However, it doesn't all stop with ability as obviously the bigger more powerful machine is a disadvantage to some extent. I use a DRZ400E for long distance trials and even the odd easy club trial for fun. Now to reduce the disadvantage a little I've carried out a number of mods to make it ride more like a trials bike... if that's possible! Firstly, lower gearing. Much lower! This makes the bike more responsive and more importantly less likely to stall. I use 11/51 instead of 13/43 a huge reduction. Then remove any surplus weight, things like indicators, rev counter, fan etc etc help to reduce the weight you are trying to move around. Next is the riding position. Enduro bikes do not feel comfortable (compared with a trials bike)when standing, your feet are too far forward and the bars too far back with the wrong angle. Sure you can stand up, but the force on your wrists is much bigger than when riding a trials machine. Trials bars and rear set footrest brackets help with this considerably. Finally the tyres, yes in mud a mx knobbly is the only way to go on the heavy bike but faced with rooted or stoney climbs and a trials tyre offers far more grip. I've got two rear wheels and swap from trials to mx tyres quite often. I've also modified the suspension and the motor to make the DRZ perform more like a trials bike but this limits things a little when on faster going, so it's not an appealing mod for most to consider. But what ever you do and however good you are, a trials bike is awlays going to make trials type riding look easier. Here's a clip of my DRZ during the Wyegate LDT in 2009 at Limekiln, this is a lot steeper than it looks, you can see from some of the other clips how different riders have differing abilities. Pete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jam Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I had a 525 KTM for geenlaning and is was a great bike, BUT if you lost your way on a hill climb it was very difficult to get back on line, as Scorpa 3 has said you need to set your bike up like a trials bike or closest to. You can't beat a trials bike, they will do/go anywhere. If I were to get another bike for greenlaning it would not be an enduro bike. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoggyf Posted February 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 So it appears i was kind of on the right idea, would love to try one of those LDT's but don't think theres any up Cumbria way and the Gasser isn't road legal so kind of rules that out. Jam - if you were gonna get another green laner what would it be then - Pampera??? or try to convert a trials bike to be more long legged? Are we trying to make something what it is not??? or do we just like tinkering about with bikes??? Lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 (edited) A neighbour of mine had a TTR(?),his mate had a WR(?)450 Yam and I tried to get them to try trials by practicing with me....they really struggled on steep ,rough hill climbs 'cos it seemed to me that their bikes had too much suspension travel ??? Is that possible? While you're at the bar..mines a Strongbow....cheers! Edited February 19, 2011 by HAM2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Next is the riding position. Enduro bikes do not feel comfortable (compared with a trials bike)when standing, your feet are too far forward and the bars too far back with the wrong angle. Sure you can stand up, but the force on your wrists is much bigger than when riding a trials machine. Trials bars and rear set footrest brackets help with this considerably. Pete I moved the footrests on a T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 you do have ldt's near cumbria.. the northern trial and the ilkley trial the pamapera with modifications is an excellent ldt machine and cheap.. if i were to buy another bike specifically for ldt and to be competative i'd pump for a beta 200 fourstroke modern spares available and can easily do the job if not that a pre 65 fourstoke trials bike with raised gearing would equally make short work of an LDT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ham2 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 I moved the footrests on a T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Two hundred mil? That's into another post code You'd be lying prone Transformed it?..into one of these maybe? 100mm behind the swinging arm pivot, perfects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 A mark III Pampera is the best bike for LDT's although the Beta Alp, Serrows and CRF230's are well up to the job. The Pampera really is a trials bike with a big tank and a seat. However, even the Pampera is vastly improved by lowering the gearing, fitting trials bars and moving the pegs back 110mm. Where the Pampera is less well suited is for trail riding, the trials derived engine isn't really at home at higher revs and the small tank range together with premixed fuel means that fuel stops need to be carefully planned. I used to get 65 miles from a tankfull on the Pampera whereas the DRZ will do over 100. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsmotopat Posted February 19, 2011 Report Share Posted February 19, 2011 Warning:: not for the squeemish.... I bet that stung a bit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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