fur_pig Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) . Edited August 1, 2011 by fur_pig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Hey guys, I do alot of woods riding and some racing on a KTM but just got my first trials bike. It is an 06 Sherco 290 that I picked up for $2600. It is pretty clean: but I noticed a few issues. -Issue 1, the guy left the fuel on, it somehow leaked into the crankcase and snuck its way into the ignition case. I noticed this because when I started the bike, some fuel bubbled out of the rubber grommet on the ignition case. After loosening the 3 bolts on the cover, about an oz of fuel drained out. I assume since combustion pressure and fuel made its way in there, the crank seal is done? How hard is this to change? -Issue 2, the rear tire is leaking air out of the spokes. This is my first non tubed rear tire. A buddy said just fill it with fix-a-flat and run it until I change the tire next, then fix the rim strip. Will this work or just make a mess when I go to change it? -The carb had lots of green varnish in it, is this from water or crap premix oil? -When the guy went to start the bike when I looked at it, it seemed like the clutch plates were stuck or something as it took off when we put it in gear w/the clutch in. After working it a bit it was fine. Should I be concerned? I really want to ride this weekend and am most worried about the crank seal. Any help is MUCH appreciated! Thanks guys, Jamie Jeeez, one would think a fellow would not let things get that way, but it does look little ridden and in good shape so not a bad deal. I would guess if you have the carb clean and the bike running, you can ride it, but the crank seals probably need to go. Not terrible, as they come out the sides of the main cases, but you will at least need a flywheel puller and possibly a few other bits. Look through the historical threads and you will find tips on this, then get back. I reccomend the Viton seals from Splatshop. Should last better than the standard ones due to the alcohol in the fuel we get. I would never put that crap in a trials tire. Makes a helluva a mess! Time to learn how to fix one properly, best start is the new style rimbands with integrated valve stem. Mike at Tryals Shop! He has them. Not sure if you have a local Sherco dealer, but Clutch plates normally stick together after sitting due to surface tension. NEVER trust them, hot or cold! You got tools, air and experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombush Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Jamie pretty much agree with Copemech on all points really. Issue 1 As you say fuel doesnt just sneak anywhere, it gets there because somethings wrong. Yes the ignition side crank seal is the obvious solution... however crank seals failing are usually associated with an uneven/high tickover due to the ensuing air leak. Also it is common to get an oily mess arount the flywheel / stator area. Getting neat fuel in there says something more dramatic is wrong. Are you sure its fuel (water sometimes gets in from pressure washing)also sometimes people spray lots of water dispersant in there (WD40 in tne UK). If it is fuel, its likely that the crankcase is flooding/has flooded... this could tie in with your "varnishy" looking carb. You dont say if the varnish is on the inside of the float bowl or the outside surfaces of the carb. If its in the floatbowl it could be that the bike has been stored for a long time with the fuel tap on. This leads to a constant cycle of fuel evaporation inside the carb leading to heavy deposits. This in turn could lead to the float valve sticking open and flooding engine. Normaly another sign of this is fuel leaking out of the carb overflow pipes. You dont say if the bike is generally running well or not?? Issue 2 Copemech's right.. fitting the rimband correctly takes time and patience but is very do-able. Liquid tyre sealant is a bodge best avoided or left until the last resort. Issue 3 if the green is varnish on the inside of the floatbowl???, you need remove all of the jets/float/choke/idle mixture screw and use carb cleaner to remove/dissolve the deposits and blow the carb out with an air-line. Pay special attention to the brass float valve seat and the float valve itself. These should be spotlessly clean and free of scoring, marks, deposits or pitting. If the bike has been flooding.. it could be wise to replace the two components. Look down the slow running and main jet to see that the orifice is exactly round indicating there is no deposit buildup inside the jet itself (this is also common where deposits are found) Issue 4 Sticking clutch plates is another sign of a bike being left to stand for a long time. Unless it happens regularly dont worry. Best not to put it into gear whilst giving it a fistfull sitting next to your new Ferrari!! Dom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fur_pig Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Thank you guys so much for your replies! I am pretty seasoned when it comes to wrenching on things and have all the basic hand and air tools to do the job. I will need to get a flywheel puller it sounds like though. I am positive it was old fuel that had contaminated the ignition side case cover and once we drained the fuel out, air would puff out a tiny bit. In my head the only way I can make sense of this is that the fuel drained out of the carb since the fuel valve was left open, made its way past the reeds into the crankcase. From there it sat until it made its way through the crank seal into the ignition case. I am a bit worried about the lower end bearings but so it goes. I will try and find some old posts on crank seals but all the ones I've found this far are on the clutch side, not the ignition side. I pulled all the jets out and they have a green varnish that when scratched, becomes dry and powdery. 1/2 the jets were plugged partially or fully and everything is taking a bath in carb cleaner all day today. On a positive note, I pulled the exhaust and reeds to look at the crank, cylinder and piston/rings and everything looked really good in the cylinder. The crank, from what I could see with the reed cage out looked good but had some discoloration on it. Probably from fuel sitting in there. I'm going to put some fresh motul 10w40 in the gearbox, some engine ice in the cooling system and put the carb back together tonight. Next up...dreaded crank seal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fur_pig Posted March 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Is there a website I can order parts for my bike that is in the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
htrdoug Posted March 24, 2011 Report Share Posted March 24, 2011 Go to RYP website,look through dealer list or just call RYP,Ryan is great to deal with and a tremendous ambassador for the sport. I'm like you,and prefer to make my orders from the comfort of my recliner,I make many more impulse buys that way but there is no "Bike Bandito" for trials bikes,so just call them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Ok, the US importer is Ryan Young at RYPUSA.com, click on the Sherco icon for info, parts , tech tips etc, or just call via the contact info. Ryan is there during normal business hours. These bikes actually come with sealed and pre lubricated main shaft bearings. Hopefully they are still ok and not washed out by the fuel in the motor, only time will tell, yet for now you should be ok as long as the crank seals are done. My standard pref at this time would still be the Viton, available through Splatshop UK, as compared to the standards for hopefull longevity, but the standard seals still work fine for years. Big things here if you want a quick ang clean job are marking the shafts and nuts soo you can take things back to proper torque after repair using air tools. They are hard, so it takes a dremel disk or summat to mark them on three basic pointes. Flywheelnut and shaft, clutch hub nut and shaft, and primary drive gear nut and shaft. You gotta remove the clutch side cover which means possibly tearing that gasket, so have a spare, yes draininf coolant, removing pipe and cooling hose clamp as well. 23mm screw clamp as I recall. Remove clutch springs and pull plate, thin big nut(scribed) to move the basket so you can pull crank primary gear(may need a bit of knocking)as they are tight. Plop seal out then reinstall and reverse process! Easy peasy! Watch washers, specially on water pump gear shaft opun re install, stick with grease. You'll see it all, if not you are recco to find the dealer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fur_pig Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 Ok, the US importer is Ryan Young at RYPUSA.com, click on the Sherco icon for info, parts , tech tips etc, or just call via the contact info. Ryan is there during normal business hours. These bikes actually come with sealed and pre lubricated main shaft bearings. Hopefully they are still ok and not washed out by the fuel in the motor, only time will tell, yet for now you should be ok as long as the crank seals are done. My standard pref at this time would still be the Viton, available through Splatshop UK, as compared to the standards for hopefull longevity, but the standard seals still work fine for years. Big things here if you want a quick ang clean job are marking the shafts and nuts soo you can take things back to proper torque after repair using air tools. They are hard, so it takes a dremel disk or summat to mark them on three basic pointes. Flywheelnut and shaft, clutch hub nut and shaft, and primary drive gear nut and shaft. You gotta remove the clutch side cover which means possibly tearing that gasket, so have a spare, yes draininf coolant, removing pipe and cooling hose clamp as well. 23mm screw clamp as I recall. Remove clutch springs and pull plate, thin big nut(scribed) to move the basket so you can pull crank primary gear(may need a bit of knocking)as they are tight. Plop seal out then reinstall and reverse process! Easy peasy! Watch washers, specially on water pump gear shaft opun re install, stick with grease. You'll see it all, if not you are recco to find the dealer! I called RYP.....damn they know their stuff. They said that the gas in the ignition side case leaked past the crank seal but they thought the crankcase was just overfilled. They said if the seal was bad it would suck air in and pull the plastic igntion cover into the flywheel and wear a hole in it. There are no signs of contact on my ignition seal and after draining/filling the transmission I am not getting any fluid in the ignition case any longer. I am going to ride it this weekend and will periodically pop the ignition case loose to see if I have any drainage. RYP said if the crank seal went bad on the clutch side it would smoke like a freight train and have no power. That doesn't seem to be the case on this bike but it is running very lean right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxdad Posted March 25, 2011 Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) I called RYP.....damn they know their stuff. They said that the gas in the ignition side case leaked past the crank seal but they thought the crankcase was just overfilled. They said if the seal was bad it would suck air in and pull the plastic igntion cover into the flywheel and wear a hole in it. There are no signs of contact on my ignition seal and after draining/filling the transmission I am not getting any fluid in the ignition case any longer. I am going to ride it this weekend and will periodically pop the ignition case loose to see if I have any drainage. RYP said if the crank seal went bad on the clutch side it would smoke like a freight train and have no power. That doesn't seem to be the case on this bike but it is running very lean right now. I just rebuilt my 04 125 (it was seized when I purchased it) and used RYP for parts and other information. Given the issue of the fuel in the bottom end I highly recommed that you verify if your fuel needle seat has a rubber tip. If so contact RYP and purchase the brass needle and seat. After my rebuild I filled the crank case with fuel twice while trying to hop around in the driveway and came to the quick conclusion that the needle was worn and the up and down motion of hoping/ general riding was making the issue worse. Replaced the needle and seat and problem solved. Unfortunately I had to buy a stator/ flywheel shortly after this which was rather expensive. Edited March 25, 2011 by Paxdad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fur_pig Posted March 25, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 25, 2011 I just rebuilt my 04 125 (it was seized when I purchased it) and used RYP for parts and other information. Given the issue of the fuel in the bottom end I highly recommed that you verify if your fuel needle seat has a rubber tip. If so contact RYP and purchase the brass needle and seat. After my rebuild I filled the crank case with fuel twice while trying to hop around in the driveway and came to the quick conclusion that the needle was worn and the up and down motion of hoping/ general riding was making the issue worse. Replaced the needle and seat and problem solved. Unfortunately I had to buy a stator/ flywheel shortly after this which was rather expensive. The little needle that the float arms attach to does have a red rubber tip on the end of it so you are saying it is causing the overfilled crankcase and the brass ones are better? I just want to make sure I am referencing the right needle. Thanks for your help, Jamie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paxdad Posted March 26, 2011 Report Share Posted March 26, 2011 The little needle that the float arms attach to does have a red rubber tip on the end of it so you are saying it is causing the overfilled crankcase and the brass ones are better? I just want to make sure I am referencing the right needle. Thanks for your help, Jamie Yes that is correct. If you inspect the rubber tip you will probably see a slight ridge that runs aroung the entire rubber needle tip just below the very end. This ridge is wear caused from the seat and most likely incompatiablity with ethanol fuel. The steel seats are unaffected by ethanol. If you call RYP they have the correct needle and seat i believe that it is a 200 needle & seat (part #D10305x200 "alchohol") rated part. They are sold toghether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Yes that is correct. If you inspect the rubber tip you will probably see a slight ridge that runs aroung the entire rubber needle tip just below the very end. This ridge is wear caused from the seat and most likely incompatiablity with ethanol fuel. The steel seats are unaffected by ethanol. If you call RYP they have the correct needle and seat i believe that it is a 200 needle & seat (part #D10305x200 "alchohol") rated part. They are sold toghether. Yet you may want the #250 fuel valve for the larger bike, as it sucks more fuel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.