TL250 Honda rehab

[woody]

Been plugging away slowly but surely.

Still waiting on parts to show up.

Got the rear brake all cleaned up and ready to go back on.

Dug through the random parts box that came with the bike and found this stuff... original grommet for the steering stem with hole for tank vent line, NEW chain tensioner rub block, 3/4 of the original chain guide for the rear sprocket, a pile of original lever boots, and original front fender extension!

I need to do some repairs to both side panels. Will be fiber-glassing up the cracks from the back. I may have sourced some aftermarket side panels out of Taiwan for it.

Need my carb/petcock parts and fork seals so I can start putting stuff back together!!!

Shedworks also do TL250 sidepanels

http://www.shedworks.net/id14.html

[sherco29]

Shedworks also do TL250 sidepanels

http://www.shedworks.net/id14.html

Ya I just came across that site a couple days ago! Looks like really nice stuff!

[sherco29]

I snatched a pair of Late Model YZ80 Footpegs off ebay for super cheap.

90% of the way to having them on with no mods to the bike.

They are about 3x the size of those tiny stock pegs. My feet were not looking forward to standing on those lil stubs!!!

Had to fab a shim to take up the slack as the yz pegs use a much wider pin to hold them on vs the small bolt the stock pegs use.

That and a little grinding to thin up the yz pegs and they are on there! Need to grind up just a fuzz more as they are a lil too tight yet.

Note to anyone that does this...grind on the non spring side of the peg more than the spring side! I screwed up a lil and ground to much off the spring side so now the spring is dragging a tiny bit on the peg mount.

Also note! There is no way the stock kicker will clear these pegs...so I am going to have to figure a clever gadget to hold that peg up when kicking.

Also started to tear down the forks. Never seen such funk-a-dunk come out of something...it may have been oil in a past life!?!?

And the oil seal gave me MAJOR grief! Not looking forward to the next forkleg!

After heating and slide-hammering at it until it was destroyed I had to get mid-evil on it.

Managed carefully to get it out without screwing up the fork leg!

Edited April 9, 2011 by sherco29

[sherco29]

Second fork seal was even more stuck in there! Got it out and got my forks cleaned up and back together. Waiting on a correct upper steering bearing to put the front end together.

Mean time, I got my rear fender mounted up while I was waiting.

I fabbed a bracket to catch the bottom of the fender. Attached to the motor mount. We'll see if it holds up!

Found this sticker in my box of goodies that came with the bike...figured it better go on there!

[ross brown]

Hi Sherco 29

Your new guards are looking good. I've just ordered a silver rear guard and a silver front one, but may yet run with a Montesa 315 Red front guard which I have spare. Photos to follow once the silver guards arrive.

Well this week was two steps forward and two steps backward. Or so it seemed.

Steps forward include the clutch lightener adapted from one for a TLR200 and a CR80 gear lever with folding tip.

Red brake cable from Venhill in the UK is a delight - such a smooth operation for a cable.

And here we have this week's test. Note the chain tensioner. As the majority of force applied to tension the chain is in the vertical plane the bolt that holds the chain tensioner to the swing arm need not be anything special. However, on my TL I have found that the thread for this bolt is neither 8mm nor 10mm. A week later, I'm still trying to find a 9mm bolt! If it is 9mm, then its the only one othe bike. I may just give up and tap it out to 10mm.

The Discovery phase of this rehab continues. A friend very generously let me have his left-over 520 gold chain. So last week we got to look closely at sprocket and wheel alignment. Now, let's all sing it together ... 'swingarm needs-a-straightening'. The sprockets have been upgraded by previous owner to 520 size which I don't have an issue with (identical to XL250 of the same year). But it looks like a replacement flat sprocket was just bolted straight onto the hub without any spacer to compensate for not using a dished sprocket. Ahh, the joys of a rehab.

Edited April 11, 2011 by Ross Brown

[sherco29]

Ouch that sucks your swingarm is tweaked.

Should not be to bad to get it back straight I would think though??

I like your folding shifter and extended clutch arm. I think I may go out to the shop and make one of those clutch arm extenders tonight! Clutch pull is stiff even with new cable.

[ross brown]

Before the twisted swingarm, and rusted-to-pieces exhaust stepped into the middle of this Road to Rehab, I had a plan. A week before the bike arrived and while my kids were at swimming lessons and I was stuck pool-side for 45 minutes watching them swim up and down, I wrote out what I thought needed doing to bring my TL up to speed and into the modern world of Twinshock usage. I didn't want to undertake a perfect restoration that would leave the bike looking 1976 fresh out of the box. Instead I've always fancied the RTL360 look. But before I began playing with the motor, I thought I'd better get the running-gear up to speed first.

Let me just back track here. My TL arrived with no front brake cable and rear brake shoes that didn't touch the sides of the drum! So the first priority was to give it some brakes; any brakes. There must be quite a few other people out there on Trials Central who, like me, live on a hill and don't have a flat driveway. If I move outside of the level floor of the garage the 230lb lard-bottomed TL (the front feels lighter than I remember it, but picking it up by the rear subframe is surprisingly heavy) starts to roll under the influence of gravity. New EBC grooved brake shoes should arrive this week.

The plan using a couple of TL250 images care of Google - and not of my bike as it hadn't yet arrived-looked like this. I've used the print out since as my to do list.

The triangular exhaust rattles so loudly if you shake it, that it sounds like it is a single hollow chamber and all of the innards have rusted loose. I'm considering a new TL125 pipe or a Honda CT200 farm bike pipe. The CT is a good 10 years younger than the TL and it a twin shock. The photo below is of a CT200 pipe and note how it wraps behind the shock. Works TLs of the late '70 had a similar large volume look to their muffler design. Has anybody else had experience with either of these pipes on a TL250?

Edited April 11, 2011 by Ross Brown

[fergie]

How do you think your swing arm got bent? Are you sure it is tweaked and does not just need the spacer? It is unbelievable to me that someone could take off a dished sprocket and think it would be ok to just replace it with a flat one without a spacer. Some people's kids!!!!

[ross brown]

Quote "How do you think your swing arm got bent? Are you sure it is tweaked and does not just need the spacer? It is unbelievable to me that someone could take off a dished sprocket and think it would be ok to just replace it with a flat one without a spacer. Some people's kids!!!!"

Not quite scientific, but look how the hole for centre of the mudguard does not line up with the centre of the tyre. At first I thought it might just need a spacer and the whole thing was an optical trick, after all, the Honda frame has an asymmetrical cross-bar to give the exhaust more space when viewed from behind. Then I tried various wheel adjustments independent of how the actual snail cam indents were numbered. When I took the chain off, it was obvious that there was a wheel-to-chassis alignment issue as well as a rear sprocket displacement with the countershaft sprocket. No mater what I did with the rear wheel adjustment the wheel would not line up in the vertical plane ie. the top of the wheel was always leaning closer to the top of the left shock than it was to the right.

So off with the swing arm. Here we are looking at the swingarm pivot while the axle is clamped level. No prize for where the bubble should be.

In both the photos below, the swingarm pivot is now clamped in the horizontal plane and we are looking at the axle end of the swingarm. Measurements are from a jig on top of the arm measuring downward. The tube sticking out at the top of the photo is the lower shock mount. Here we have the left swingarm where the start of the axle cut out is 42mm from the top of the jig. The Swing arm doesn't actually touch the jig.

And here we have the right swingarm where the start of the axle cut out is 35mm from the top of the jig and the arm is hard up against the jig. 6mm difference at the axle turns into quite a twist at the edge of the tyre.

Now I have to decide to twist and straighten, or replace the swing arm.

Edited April 16, 2011 by Ross Brown

[sherco29]

Oya bit tweaked!! Keep us posted! And OMG LOL at that Wanted Poster!!!!!!!!Freaking AWESOME!!

I got crazy on the old girl today. Sick of waiting around for parts, I decided to yank the side covers off the motor. Ohhhhboy...shoulda just left em on ahahaha.

Do not even attempt to loosen the screws without an impact screwdriver!

Left side cover has a CRAZY clutch arm setup and was very stuck on. The pivot area of mine was GNARLY. Think this is a common problem with these side covers...the xl250 uses the same cover I think. xlintperformance will re-bush and bearing your old case...spendy. The bearing is NLA from honda. I found one that I think will work tho a bit shallower than oem. For now, I cleaned it all up spotless, and free'd up the old needle bearing and greased the snot out of it. Clutch pull at the lever is about 10x easier now. I will have to deal with that bearing sooner or later though. When the Lside cover is off you have a good view of the cam chain. Mine was pretty loose. The adjuster was almost fully compressed tho so lots of room to take up some slack. Backed off the holder and it tightened right up.

Clutch cover came off with no drama. Cleaned out the oil slinger filter next to the clutch. It had some gunk buildup...nothing to crazy. Need to grab more brake cleaner to finish up before I button that side up.

[sherco29]

Farting around waiting on my last few parts to show up. Got the timing/valves/points adjusted. Fresh sticky rubber mounted up on it and my Montesa. Montesa rear was my first tubeless to mount, Man tubeless tires are sure easy to mount!! No worries about pinching tubes. My 20$ harbor freight tire changer I scored the other day helped out too! Nice having the wheels held solid!!

Should have it down on its own 2 feet this afternoon. Need a throttle cable and airfilter then I can RIDE IT!!!!!!!

Edited April 15, 2011 by sherco29

[ross brown]

"Then I can RIDE IT!!!!!!!" Excellent. I'm still someway off that goal. I ordered a replacement swing arm this morning. Brake shoes, sprocket cover, and mud guards are all somewhere between ebay and me. Like you, while waiting for parts to arrive I tried the side covers but I managed to undo only two out of 12 from the right hand side cover, and five on the left side. All the rest are rock solid. So had to go out and buy an Impact Driver this morning.

I've found two companies talking about sprocket spacers so that flat sprockets can be used. B&J Racing in the US and Trail & Trials in the UK. The B&J spacer is $55. Trail & Trials has this lovely quote on their web site "Please note this is a flat sprocket and will need a spacer which we are currently working on and it should be available 2010." Unfortunately they have not responded to my emails so I don't know if they ever launched this product or not. I'd like to keep the option to have flat sprockets if I can as this opens up a greater range of sprocket brands and sizes that are available. Interestingly they are saying "We supply a 12 tooth front sprocket & 60 tooth rear sprocket. This is the ideal set up for trials." The set up I inherited is 13 and 51 teeth with a 520 chain.

[sherco29]

Mine is stock geared. I think it was 14/57. The sprockets looked like new so I tossed a new chain on em.

I did take note of the BJRacing spacer setup. Probably end up with that eventually.

Higher priority will be replacing that bearing on the clutch release arm pivot...for now its smooth but has some play. I got a different arm off ebay as mine was pitted and worn where the needle bearing rides. So that and a new bearing should sort that.

At least I can stand on it and balance in the shop now!

Edited April 16, 2011 by sherco29

[fergie]

"Then I can RIDE IT!!!!!!!" Excellent. I'm still someway off that goal. I ordered a replacement swing arm this morning. Brake shoes, sprocket cover, and mud guards are all somewhere between ebay and me. Like you, while waiting for parts to arrive I tried the side covers but I managed to undo only two out of 12 from the right hand side cover, and five on the left side. All the rest are rock solid. So had to go out and buy an Impact Driver this morning.

I've found two companies talking about sprocket spacers so that flat sprockets can be used. B&J Racing in the US and Trail & Trials in the UK. The B&J spacer is $55. Trail & Trials has this lovely quote on their web site "Please note this is a flat sprocket and will need a spacer which we are currently working on and it should be available 2010." Unfortunately they have not responded to my emails so I don't know if they ever launched this product or not. I'd like to keep the option to have flat sprockets if I can as this opens up a greater range of sprocket brands and sizes that are available. Interestingly they are saying "We supply a 12 tooth front sprocket & 60 tooth rear sprocket. This is the ideal set up for trials." The set up I inherited is 13 and 51 teeth with a 520 chain.

Ok so here is what I did with my 74 and 78 ty250. They have dished sprockets like the tl. So when upgrading to a 520 chain I simply cut the center out of my old 428 sprocket, machined it down to the right thickness and used that as a spacer. I think you could actually just put some washers behind the sprocket to act as a spacer (I have not actually tried that method though) No need to spend the $55 on a b&j spacer. Cheers ,Fergie.

[sherco29]

You need quite a thick spacer on the TL. MUCH to thick for a stack of washers! The stock sprocket has a major dish to it!

pic of the bjracing spacer.

Looks to be a good 3/4"

Edited April 16, 2011 by sherco29