charlie prescott Posted April 1, 2011 Report Share Posted April 1, 2011 Hi Guy's. Well said Woody, Hi Toyboy, You must know my views on the whole situation by now???? And you should know that I have No axe to grind with the Scottish two day trial at the end of April. And has you say if you don't like there rules dont enter (or try). But what annoys me is that a set of rules that is stated in the entry form,( we did know about fork length)? has now been changed within a month of the said trial, For no other reason than I can think of but someone griping to the organisers about certain people using a carb that may be better than the one fitted to there bike, or forks that have better action and movement than there's. This is only supposition. But you now have most of the competitors entered in the event, running around like headless chickens? wondering if, when they get to Scotland there bike will not be frowned upon,and if there will even be more rule changes before the event. But the main thing they will be doing is checking what change they still have in there pockets to perform all these bike changes. Not good for the sport, at this time. Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrfun Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 The lads & lasses that work tremendously hard all year round organising the world class events that are the P65 & SSDT deserve all the praise and no criticism. Surely though when bikes are built from restored, recycled & replica parts it does not matter what carb or fork yokes are fitted or if the engine oil is in a tank or the frame. The riders and spectators are not bothered and the better riders will always triumph so why make a fuss? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alan Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 (edited) although there are no great prizes at stake, in any form of competition people will try to gain a competitive advantage. In the case of pre 65 trails it seems that many years ago general machine rules were laid down in good faith, but over the years the ingenuity of the riders to "develop" the machines has surpassed whatever could have been imagined back in the day. The edges of the envelope have been pushed and pushed, blind eyes have been turned and obvious infringements have now become acceptable. Riders and officials have a collective responsibility to determine where this ends up. Officials can try to write the extremely comprehensive rules and then try to police them, but riders have to stop looking for the loop holes and exploiting them (turning down exposed parts of the stanchions, having two inche of stanchion above the yoke). Obviously the horse has well and truely bolted, people are not going to "un-develop" their machines, but there needs to be some guidelines to try to allow every one to compete on a level playing feild. As i see it there now needs to be at least 3 classes, Genuine (ish) pre 65 - limited suspension travel, no billet parts "super" pre 65 - fiddle forks,"replica" billet parts etc British twin shock- more modern forks and wheels allowed I feel for the organisers in Scotland who get caught up in this every year. As far as i can see they have not changed any rules since they issued the entry pack. Clearly there needs to be a set of rules accepted and enforced by all clubs and abided to by all riders. Edited April 2, 2011 by alan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 i havent seen any rule changes since the entry pack was made available.. stating that fork length and diameter will be ' checked ' isnt changing an eligibility rule and stating that mk1 amals are allowed and mk1 .5 again isnt changing a rule its clarifying that 1 is differnet to 1.5 which frankly even my 5 year old knows. i hope that the club holds good to thier word and at least cheacks that bike look like the photo in the entry and that some specific fixed points are as per the regs. the length of forks and doametr of stantions would seem easy/ simple to confirm beyond doubt in less than 60 seconds. If they would like some help with this scrutineering i would happily support them practically with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trickymicky Posted April 2, 2011 Report Share Posted April 2, 2011 So,a carb that was used last year and years prior to that isnt allowed this year? or have i got it wrong? The regs state MK1 carbs acceptable,MK2's are not permitted. Well a MK 1 1/2 is not a MK2 thats for sure. It should have been left as it was for this year and clarified in next years regs. Some people do a 1000 mile round trip for this trial,and i'm sure they can do without an extra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hi Guy's The last three post's have been spot on. and I have had E-mails today by professionals to this sport. that confirms, that has I say the posts are correct. And also that whatever seems to be the rules for this one trial in the year, dictates the norm for the rest of the clubs for the following year. So we can now be looking at a blanket ban on Amal concentric 1 1/2's, in any classic bike trials for the rest of the year??? (not mine). It is also widely known that Japanese internals are fitted into Amal carbs. and the benefit is that they perform a lot cleaner, but they also cost. Can we now be looking at removing the chain-cases on unit bikes to see if they have Lucas or PVL generators, or checking whether the internals of Lucas BTH mags are not actually PAL speedway items. Then we get on to the thornie subject of the rear suspension units!! should these have restricted travel?? 3 1/2 or 4"? should they be governed by price? and should the length, be as originally fitted to that bike model. and should the angle of deflection be also the same as fitted to the bike model as it left the factory? or is there any discretion? Should swinging arms be restricted to using metalastic bushes or bronze or are we now allowed to use plastic (that was used in the sixties)? Looking at pictures of the first pre 65 Scottish trial it looked as if anything that looked remotely like a bike from the Sixties was allowed! should that not still be the case??? And there has be winners using four stud BSA/ Triumph forks. I must get a life!! Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b40rt Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Sooooooo, do I understand that disc brakes and hydraulic clutches should be allowed ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Hi Guy's. Hi B40, You don't realy seem to be getting the point do you?? This is the problem!!!! Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monty_jon Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Hi Guy's. Hi B40, You don't realy seem to be getting the point do you?? This is the problem!!!! Regards Charlie. I think the point B40 is making is without rules anything goes! Why do rules always seem to cause people problems, if you don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Why do rules always seem to cause people problems, if you don Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie prescott Posted April 5, 2011 Report Share Posted April 5, 2011 Hi Guy's Check this out and thn you can add your Japanese bits aswell if you like. http://www.amalcarb.co.uk/TechnicalDetail.aspx?id=11 Regards Charlie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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