copemech Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Are there really people there that cannot speak english? This reminds me of my local Taco shop! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 3, 2011 Report Share Posted April 3, 2011 Are there really people there that cannot speak english? This reminds me of my local Taco shop! Sadly for english speakers this happens all over europe as well, to be honest it does take the shine off two weeks in magaluf. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spenser Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 I would like to clarify the position taken by the Canada Pacific Trials Association (CPTA). We as a club have started to chart a path for riders to develop to the highest levels of international competition available, and in doing so, have decided to affiliate with the Canadian Motorcycle Association as they are the organization that holds FIM affiliation. Our rider development program (still in it's infancy) offers schools, and rider support for those seeking to compete for Canada at the TDN; and prior to our aligning with the CMA, we could not offer that last, critical step to international competition. And please quite beating the dead horse of free insurance=cheep entry fee! Within reason, every rider should belong to an organization that can advocate for our sport, and many of the riders I know belong to more than one. The good works that can be accomplished by a formally organized group of people far outstrips what can be done by individuals, especially when it comes to working with governments and other interested user groups. Most of the riders I know (myself included) owe a debt of gratitude to those that have organized, and worked to secure the riding areas that we currently enjoy. So for fairness, break out the membership fee, and compare the cost of the event entry fee itself, and I think that you will find that for the Squamish CMA National, it is very reasonable. The entry fee for the CMA National in Squamish will be $45.00 per day; this includes the fee for the 2011 CMA competition license and the additional benefits that come with that. If an entrant is a current 2011 CMA license holder, their entry fee will be $10.00 per day, the same as our regular CPTA club trials. Compare this to the entry fee for the WTC rounds in Summerland where the cost per day that I have seen published is $30.00 per day, or $50.00 for both days (entry fee only). The issue of who is promoting the "true" National series should also be left in the dust bin. On both sides of the CMA and WTC fence, it is agreed that the size of our country and the costs associated with attending events 4700 kilometres apart makes events in the East and West unsupportable; this can be verified by asking how many riders attended the western series by eastern riders over the last two years (hint: you have more fingers on one hand than the correct answer). I have had conversations with a representative of the WTC, and they agree that national rounds on each side of the country in a given year are not practical. More to that point, the Canadian class "champion" need not even win an event to be crowned, they only have to finish near the top of their class in all of the events. I do have a single request from the WEC/WTC. As has been reported, the Motorcyclists Confederation of Canada (MCC) has given the WEC/WTC "several" thousand dollars to promote the sport of trials in Canada. Given that trials motorcycle clubs and individuals are donating to the TDN fund to send Canadian riders from both the East and West to Italy; would the WEC/WTC be interested in supporting the riders in their trip to the international stage? In closing, I would like to mention that I take no issue with the national series that the WEC/WTC are promoting, and in fact, the amount of work that they put into promoting and hosting events shows a great deal of passion and dedication to our growing sport. Keep up the good works Spencer Fitschen Canada Pacific Trials Association Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Spencer: I would suggest that YOUR conversations with WTC members are a bit of a farce! As the president of a club, you misrepresented yourself and your intentions and I will discuss this with you when I see you next, not on this forum. As well, you should reserve any or all comments about an organization you know nothing about really. To suggest that funds we have secured through hard work to promote trials in this country, be used for the TDN is slightly dilusional to say the least. That whole system is completely flawed as well, but thats a story for another day. I wish nothing but the best for all the riders competing for Canada and have done fundraising for them in the past. I think you should put your energy into your event, as I know from experience how much work it really is to put on a good one! You can promote your event and your decisions at will, but doing it by trying to dis-credit the other guys is a bit rediculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borus Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) All good stuff, this topic has been on public record in the past including the WEC/WTC's response to any questions put their way regarding their venture. Trialscanada, moderated by My. Johns, has unfortunately deleted them and others. There was some great information in those threads that probably would have stood the test of time. Only he knows truly why he deleted them. Well anyway, it's back in public record and hopefully here to stay. I'm with Spencer, keep up the good work and if you ever get the point where your a credible sanctioning organization ready for the work load we'll be more than interested to take a good look at it. One of the least understood areas in trials or any motorcycle sport is the high level of work a sanction body has to do. Build your proposal, put the necessary infrastructure in place and get ready for questions and tremendous work load. Please note that when we ask questions it's not an attack, as you do, we also have the best interest of trials at heart. Sincerely Bob Billyard - Canadian TDN Team Manager Edited April 14, 2011 by borus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borus Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) As well, you should reserve any or all comments about an organization you know nothing about really. We're trying to learn and understand about your organization. We (the major clubs) have made our decisions based on some answers or lack thereof so far from the WEC / WTC. Please remember that the WEC made a presentation at our Ontario Organizers meeting two years in a row. At the second meeting I respectfully asked everyone to give the WEC proposal some positive thought. Needless to say, the WEC did not prevail. As far knowing about your organization. I had a personal meeting with the WEC back in 2008 for about three hours to better understand what they were about. I also have numerous conversations with the MCC and the head of their competition committee. I have also had extensive interviews with the CMA. I have passed all that information along to all who want to know what I have learned. Please remember you are not the only source of information but you appear to be the only ones who are not comfortable with questions. Has anything changed? Please let us know so we can make an new informed assessment. We're always open for discussion. As always, a thorough assessment will be made and discussed openly by everyone. Edited April 4, 2011 by borus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borus Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 (edited) The WTC is NOT a for profit promoter, despite THAT pitch you have used since we started out! Copied from the Home site of the WEC: "World Enduro Canada is an off road motorcycle race promoter that is pleased to announce their association as a sanctioning body and promotion partner under the umbrella of the Motorcycle Confederation of Canada (MCC). WEC will be responsible for Enduro, Cross Country and Observed Trials competition across Canada." Copied from the WTC tab on the WEC site: "As of February 12th, 2011, the trials division of the WEC will now be recognized as WTC--World Trials Canada." Have said that the MCC is not a sanctioning body and is not-for-profit but is only an advocacy group. In addition on the MCC web site the WEC is not listed under non-profit organizations, it is listed under dealers / promoters who are for profit businesses. ___________________________________________ Sorry, maybe I have misunderstood something here. Where do the profits go from the Summerland event this year? Again, we don't make these things up, they're there for everyone to see. Edited April 6, 2011 by borus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borus Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 To suggest that funds we have secured through hard work to promote trials in this country, be used for the TDN is slightly dilusional to say the least. That whole system is completely flawed as well, but thats a story for another day. Just make sure everyone knows - I will respond to any questions regarding the TDN Team, its Advisory Panel with representatives from across Canada and it open system for applications and selection - I am willing to do so at any time. You know who your representative is, let him / her or me know directly how you see it as flawed and we'll certainly put it to the Advisory Panel and if accepted to the CMA Board for approval. You want the top riders at your WTC events, same riders are on the TDN team or may be on the team in the future. I think it is a very positive suggestion from Spencer for these funds meant to support Canadian trials to be directed toward the TDN Team. I might just give the MCC a call again to discuss. Thanks Steve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted April 4, 2011 Report Share Posted April 4, 2011 Just make sure everyone knows - I will respond to any questions regarding the TDN Team, its Advisory Panel with representatives from across Canada and it open system for applications and selection - I am willing to do so at any time. You know who your representative is, let him / her or me know directly how you see it as flawed and we'll certainly put it to the Advisory Panel and if accepted to the CMA Board for approval. You want the top riders at your WTC events, same riders are on the TDN team or may be on the team in the future. I think it is a very positive suggestion from Spencer for these funds meant to support Canadian trials to be directed toward the TDN Team. I might just give the MCC a call again to discuss. Thanks Steve. Bob: I think that is an excellent idea that you contact the MCC again and see if can get those funds you are talking about, and please report back to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borus Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 Bob: I think that is an excellent idea that you contact the MCC again and see if can get those funds you are talking about, and please report back to us. The MCC has been asked to donate with a cc to the TDN Advisory Panel and Team, as everyone else has. Hopefully the MCC will agree that a Canadian TDN Team sponsorship is within their "Mission and Objectives". Representing your country is truly an honour. Now, I see the WTC has formed a council, I assume your sentiments toward the TDN team are shared by the council and your decision not to support the team was democratically vetted through the council? Who decides what happens to the donation from the MCC? Is it the council or is this something you will poll your members about? If the WEC / WTC wants to become a sanctioning body then I would suggest total transparency and accountability will be insisted upon. We know now that the MCC is not a sanctioning body. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted April 6, 2011 Report Share Posted April 6, 2011 The MCC has been asked to donate with a cc to the TDN Advisory Panel and Team, as everyone else has. Hopefully the MCC will agree that a Canadian TDN Team sponsorship is within their "Mission and Objectives". Representing your country is truly an honour. Now, I see the WTC has formed a council, I assume your sentiments toward the TDN team are shared by the council and your decision not to support the team was democratically vetted through the council? Who decides what happens to the donation from the MCC? Is it the council or is this something you will poll your members about? If the WEC / WTC wants to become a sanctioning body then I would suggest total transparency and accountability will be insisted upon. We know now that the MCC is not a sanctioning body. Bob: I am not sure why or how you think I feel about our TDN team. I have always supported the efforts of the riders, and yes, it is truly an honour to represent your country. I personally understand this as I was lucky enough to be picked for the very first Canadian TDN team. It was one of the highlights of my trials career. Am I understanding then that you have already applied for funds through the MCC? If so, what was the answer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve fracy Posted April 19, 2011 Report Share Posted April 19, 2011 Just to get back on topic here....it is now only a month away from the first Round of the WTC Canadian Trials Championship Rounds 1&2 in Summerland BC! Clerk of the Course Outlaw Dave Rhodes has already been hard at work and the event is well in hand! Just a reminder to all the Champ riders, that this year, the WTC is offering thanks to the help of outside sponsors, daily cash awards for the lowest loop score of the day! The Weekend Warrior award amount of $100 will be given to the Champ rider who posts the lowest loop score on each day of the 4 Event series. This is the very first of its kind in North America!! See you all in Summerland! Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted April 20, 2011 Report Share Posted April 20, 2011 A most succinct comment Cope Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
copemech Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 (edited) A most succinct comment Cope Not relly, if you came to live in north america,would you expect to learn the language or have others cater to your needs? I think that is rediculous. Seems to me most were born here. They got Frenchies down here too in LA, but they learn, bit different dialect though. Same way here though, as the imported mexicans cannot bother to learn the language and expect accommodation, so every goddam thing is printed in spanish on one side, so one cannot read it! Total BS! Next thing, you lads will have to print everythinng in arabic, or blackaneeze, or whatever you call it! Feck that! Edited April 24, 2011 by copemech Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted April 24, 2011 Report Share Posted April 24, 2011 Not sure whats happened here .you had put up a post saying that things work better if we work together and thats gone missing. Regards immigrants can you imagine the pull we have; half the globe as old empire ,free healthcare ,free education,free housing.free social security money. Everything in your own language is a given, believe me there are dozens of languages on our paperwork with a caveat to ask if you need help with understanding. bit like riding really its a question of balance ...or was that a moody blues album? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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