electronic igniton

[bondy]

hello all im geting a electronic igniton from bultaco uk. for my 199A anybody any idea if there easy to fit? allso whats the best spark plug. and what should the gap be? im having troubel starting her up. have to put fuel down the head.and she starts up and runs ok. just whants the tick over and air scerw ajusting please can anybody help.

[bultacosteve]

So if the engine only fires when fuel is put in through the spark plug hole then I would suspect that fuel isn't getting from the carb to the engine!!!! But thats the simple answer. I am willing to bet after reading your other posts that you likely have several simple problems that need to be addressed. 1st you mentioned that your carb is brand new from bultaco uk. Take it apart carefully and make sure that the jets and all passageways are clear. you also said that you have to mess with the inline fuel filter to get fuel to flow to the carb. Make sure the petcock in the tank is clean and flowing fuel properly. 2nd is air leaks. air can leak from the intake manifold, crank seals, center case and base gaskets. If you have an air leak it will make it hard to start. If the engine is sucking air then there won't be enough primary compression to suck fuel from the carb into the engine. 3rd is spark. The timing of the spark is very important. 2.5 to 2.7 mm before top dead center is the spec. The femsa points ignition is a good one and when setup correctly there is no reason to get an electronic. A new ignition won't make it start easier. Spark, fuel, compression. those 3 things are critical.

I would make sure 1st that the carb is clean and fuel is flowing. Next if you don't know the history of the bike replace the crank seals and as a matter of course replace the base gasket and intake manifold gasket. If you have spark then you have spark, don't worry about how fat and blue it may or may not be it doesn't matter. You have to only make sure that it is sparking at the right time. Set the point gap 1st and then check the the timing. If the timing is off then the stator plate will need to be moved. Clockwise advances the timing (fires sooner) counter clockwise retards it (fires later). Don't and I repeat don't adjust timing by adjusting points gap only adjust timing by moving the stator plate. If you aren't sure how to do it then have someone who does know do it. I'm sure bultaco uk could get you set up in an afternoon. Sometimes rather than throwing expensive parts like ignitions and such on the bike to try to maybe get it going better, your money is better spent paying an expert to do the work and get it going the way it should with the parts that are already there. less headaches in the longrun

Steve

[bondy]

So if the engine only fires when fuel is put in through the spark plug hole then I would suspect that fuel isn't getting from the carb to the engine!!!! But thats the simple answer. I am willing to bet after reading your other posts that you likely have several simple problems that need to be addressed. 1st you mentioned that your carb is brand new from bultaco uk. Take it apart carefully and make sure that the jets and all passageways are clear. you also said that you have to mess with the inline fuel filter to get fuel to flow to the carb. Make sure the petcock in the tank is clean and flowing fuel properly. 2nd is air leaks. air can leak from the intake manifold, crank seals, center case and base gaskets. If you have an air leak it will make it hard to start. If the engine is sucking air then there won't be enough primary compression to suck fuel from the carb into the engine. 3rd is spark. The timing of the spark is very important. 2.5 to 2.7 mm before top dead center is the spec. The femsa points ignition is a good one and when setup correctly there is no reason to get an electronic. A new ignition won't make it start easier. Spark, fuel, compression. those 3 things are critical.

I would make sure 1st that the carb is clean and fuel is flowing. Next if you don't know the history of the bike replace the crank seals and as a matter of course replace the base gasket and intake manifold gasket. If you have spark then you have spark, don't worry about how fat and blue it may or may not be it doesn't matter. You have to only make sure that it is sparking at the right time. Set the point gap 1st and then check the the timing. If the timing is off then the stator plate will need to be moved. Clockwise advances the timing (fires sooner) counter clockwise retards it (fires later). Don't and I repeat don't adjust timing by adjusting points gap only adjust timing by moving the stator plate. If you aren't sure how to do it then have someone who does know do it. I'm sure bultaco uk could get you set up in an afternoon. Sometimes rather than throwing expensive parts like ignitions and such on the bike to try to maybe get it going better, your money is better spent paying an expert to do the work and get it going the way it should with the parts that are already there. less headaches in the longrun

Steve

hi steve thanks for your help. all top end gaskets have been renewed.ill check the carb. and check its all clear. how do i change the crank seals? do i have to split the engin? its got plenty compression. theres a fant blue spark. ive got the new igniton now so ill be ptting it on

[bultacosteve]

If you just got the new ignition then there is no better time than right now to replace the magneto side crank seal. When you remove the old flywheel and stator plate, underneath there is a plate with a seal in it that is held in with 6 screws. Remove this plate and tap out the old seal with the appropriate sized driver. Install the new seal into the plate using the same driver and reinstall onto the motor. and thats all there is to replacing crank seals. The right side or "pto" seal is a little more involved as you would have to remove the clutch assembly and final drive to gain access to the seal plate on that side. But for now just do the magneto side. New seals are dirt cheap and easy to come by at any automotive retailer that sells bearings. The seal size is 25x40x12. There is also an oring that should be replaced and its sizing is 50x2. On the clutch side the seal size is 32x47x12, it uses an o ring also and is the same size as previously mentioned.

I have installed several femsatronic and motoplat electronic ignitions over the years but I haven't done any of the new stuff like those available from pvl or electrex. That aside it should be relatively straight forward so long as you have an accurate way of determining TDC. The product itself should come with complete instructions for assembly and will tell you how to set them up. The one benefit of electronic is that the ignition curve will advance and retard with engine rpm whereas a points system will only remain constant which can cause pre ignition or detonation problems.

Spark plugs such as those available from NGK come pre gapped and shouldn't need adjustment. It doesn't hurt to check them but usually thgey are fine right out of the box. As far as which plug to use could be up for some debate. These days in my M199B I have been using a BP5ES NGK and it seems to work just fine. In my M159 I use a B7ES and it works fine. I don`t like using resistor style plugs although they seem to be all thats available now so we are kind of forced to use them. The only reason for their use is they cut down on radio interference. I would never use one on an original femsatronic ignition as it could cause damage to the system.

I have worked as a motorcycle mechanic for the last 20 years and in that time have worked on a lot of different bikes. bultacos are no different than anything else out there when it comes to making them run correctly. As said in my previous post Spark, fuel, and Compression are what it takes to make an engine run properly. Take your time to make sure each one of those things is correct. Remember that 2 strokes have primary and secondary compression. That means that you could do a top end compression check and it would show fine but not run. It could be the primary or crankcase compression that is bad causing it not to run. Thats why I mentioned replacing crank seals and the like. Make sure that you have spark and that it is firing when it is supposed to. Fuel, make sure the carb is clean and that fuel is flowing to it from the tank. If those 3 requirements are met then your bike has no reason not to run. Poor running or hard starting or no running at all will always be from no spark, or poorly timed spark, bad compression or no fuel. Nothing else. Good luck

Steve

[mrb505]

When you do get seals make sure they are the Duo type as in having a lip facing in and one facing out, on the clutch side you can get by having two seals back to back, two 32x47x7 work fine.There is also a o'ring that goes over the crankshaft on the clutch side before the sleeve and sprocket/weight go on.

[bondy]

If you just got the new ignition then there is no better time than right now to replace the magneto side crank seal. When you remove the old flywheel and stator plate, underneath there is a plate with a seal in it that is held in with 6 screws. Remove this plate and tap out the old seal with the appropriate sized driver. Install the new seal into the plate using the same driver and reinstall onto the motor. and thats all there is to replacing crank seals. The right side or "pto" seal is a little more involved as you would have to remove the clutch assembly and final drive to gain access to the seal plate on that side. But for now just do the magneto side. New seals are dirt cheap and easy to come by at any automotive retailer that sells bearings. The seal size is 25x40x12. There is also an oring that should be replaced and its sizing is 50x2. On the clutch side the seal size is 32x47x12, it uses an o ring also and is the same size as previously mentioned.

I have installed several femsatronic and motoplat electronic ignitions over the years but I haven't done any of the new stuff like those available from pvl or electrex. That aside it should be relatively straight forward so long as you have an accurate way of determining TDC. The product itself should come with complete instructions for assembly and will tell you how to set them up. The one benefit of electronic is that the ignition curve will advance and retard with engine rpm whereas a points system will only remain constant which can cause pre ignition or detonation problems.

Spark plugs such as those available from NGK come pre gapped and shouldn't need adjustment. It doesn't hurt to check them but usually thgey are fine right out of the box. As far as which plug to use could be up for some debate. These days in my M199B I have been using a BP5ES NGK and it seems to work just fine. In my M159 I use a B7ES and it works fine. I don`t like using resistor style plugs although they seem to be all thats available now so we are kind of forced to use them. The only reason for their use is they cut down on radio interference. I would never use one on an original femsatronic ignition as it could cause damage to the system.

I have worked as a motorcycle mechanic for the last 20 years and in that time have worked on a lot of different bikes. bultacos are no different than anything else out there when it comes to making them run correctly. As said in my previous post Spark, fuel, and Compression are what it takes to make an engine run properly. Take your time to make sure each one of those things is correct. Remember that 2 strokes have primary and secondary compression. That means that you could do a top end compression check and it would show fine but not run. It could be the primary or crankcase compression that is bad causing it not to run. Thats why I mentioned replacing crank seals and the like. Make sure that you have spark and that it is firing when it is supposed to. Fuel, make sure the carb is clean and that fuel is flowing to it from the tank. If those 3 requirements are met then your bike has no reason not to run. Poor running or hard starting or no running at all will always be from no spark, or poorly timed spark, bad compression or no fuel. Nothing else. Good luck

Steve

hi steve ive put the new igniton plate on. but im having troubel puting the magneto on it will only go so far on. dont think its going on all the way. i dont no weather its just the woodfuff key or somthing else. its doing me head in been on to bultaco uk. and he cant understand why it wont go on. ive tryd puting the igniton plate in the magneto it fits ok just cant understand why it wont go on. if i take the woodroof key out it gose on ok im praying its just the woodroof key being a bitch. please can you put any light on it?

[bultacosteve]

Without being there to see what the problem is I have no way to help you. Sounds like the woodruff key might be the problem but i have no idea without being able to see it

Steve

[totalshell]

if the thing goes on without the woodruff key but wont with then the problem is either the key or the key way. try the kep in the ignition if it wont go in 'modify one of them.. the key will be the easiest..

[bondy]

Without being there to see what the problem is I have no way to help you. Sounds like the woodruff key might be the problem but i have no idea without being able to see it

Steve

ok steve thanks. im going to have anougher go today. and see if i can put the magneto on i think it is the woodroof key. but not 100% sure trust me to be the one that as problems with it. when bultaco uk have never had this problem with anybody else