bondy Posted April 15, 2011 Report Share Posted April 15, 2011 hi all can anybody advice me on how to set timing .and points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bultacosteve Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 I would call Dave Renham and order the Bultaco service manual. It goes into complete detail on how to set up points and timing them. You will also need a top dead center gauge and a buzz box or timing lite or ohm meter to tell you when the points are opening. These tools with the service manual will enable you to do your timing. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomtom385 Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Hello mate, firstly you have to set the correct gap at the points, which is 0.35 to 0.45mm or 0.013 to 0.017 in old money. Bit fiddly this bit, as you only have the little window in the flywheel to work through, unless you have an old flywheel that you can take apart and just use the cam. i will assume that you dont have this luxury. you adjust the points through the window using 2 small screwdrivers and a set of feeler gauges set within the tolerences above. i find 0.40mm works for me. turn the flywheel by hand so that the points are fully open. check the gap. adust the gap by slightly undoing the larger of the 2 screws on the points. with another screwdriver turn the smaller screw to adjust the gap in the points. the feeler gauge should slightly drag on the face of the points. remove the feeler gauge still maintaining the points gap by holding the small screw with a screw driver. using another screwdriver do up the larger screw and recheck the points gap. most probably find the gap is incorrect, if its within the tolerences above ok, if not try adjusting again, will take a few stabs to get it right, stick with it as this needs to be bang on, to be able to set the timing. next thing is to set the timing which is 2.8mm to 3.00mm before top dead centre (BTDC) this is where the piston needs to be in the barrel when the points are closing. to get this measurement you will need a timing tool. these are cheap and can be got from bultaco uk or sammy millers. i have a micrometer timing tool which is a little more expensive but more accurate. (1) take out the spark plug and insert the timing tool finger tight. turn the flywheel by hand so that the piston pushes the plunger in the tool to furthest it will go before dropping down again. this is the top dead centre of the pistons stroke.(2) turn the flywheel counterclock wise slowly untill the plunger in the tool has dropped 2.8mm to 3.0mm this is when the points should be starting to seperate. to check this with any accuracy, you need to use an ammeter or a simple tester. you can make one by wiring a bulb and battery in series and connect the wires to the black and red wires coming out of the stator. really is worth making one of these or buying an ammeter. make sure the ammeter has an audible continuity facility and crocodile clips. assuming you have a wired bulb.(3) turn the flywheel so that the bulb just goes out. check the measurement on the plunger if its within the tolerences great, if not then the timing need to be adjusted. (4) take the flywheel off. slacken off the 3 screws holding the stator plate in position. (5) Turn the stator clockwise to advance the timing or couter clockwise to retard the timing. you only need to move it slightly, tighten the 3 screws. (6) replace the flywheel (make sure that the flywheel is fully on the shaft) i put the nut back on and do it up. Repeat 1 through to 3 to check that it is correct. If it is, great, tighten the fly wheel fully and remove the tool from the spark plug hole. if not correct then repeat the process. dont worry mate if you are gonna own a bully for a while you will get quite expert at this. But seriously, scour fleabay, auto jumbles for another flywheel that you can take the centre out of by drilling the rivets out. makes the whole process a piece of cake. Stick with it and hope that this helps, it works for me, my 198 starts within 3 kicks. you could do away with all this and go for an electronic ignition with the added bonus of a massive spark. i have re-read this a couple of times and think that i have listed everything. i am sure the more experienced bultaco guys in here may have a better process. Good luck, Tom, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted April 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 Hello mate, firstly you have to set the correct gap at the points, which is 0.35 to 0.45mm or 0.013 to 0.017 in old money. Bit fiddly this bit, as you only have the little window in the flywheel to work through, unless you have an old flywheel that you can take apart and just use the cam. i will assume that you dont have this luxury. you adjust the points through the window using 2 small screwdrivers and a set of feeler gauges set within the tolerences above. i find 0.40mm works for me. turn the flywheel by hand so that the points are fully open. check the gap. adust the gap by slightly undoing the larger of the 2 screws on the points. with another screwdriver turn the smaller screw to adjust the gap in the points. the feeler gauge should slightly drag on the face of the points. remove the feeler gauge still maintaining the points gap by holding the small screw with a screw driver. using another screwdriver do up the larger screw and recheck the points gap. most probably find the gap is incorrect, if its within the tolerences above ok, if not try adjusting again, will take a few stabs to get it right, stick with it as this needs to be bang on, to be able to set the timing. next thing is to set the timing which is 2.8mm to 3.00mm before top dead centre (BTDC) this is where the piston needs to be in the barrel when the points are closing. to get this measurement you will need a timing tool. these are cheap and can be got from bultaco uk or sammy millers. i have a micrometer timing tool which is a little more expensive but more accurate. (1) take out the spark plug and insert the timing tool finger tight. turn the flywheel by hand so that the piston pushes the plunger in the tool to furthest it will go before dropping down again. this is the top dead centre of the pistons stroke.(2) turn the flywheel counterclock wise slowly untill the plunger in the tool has dropped 2.8mm to 3.0mm this is when the points should be starting to seperate. to check this with any accuracy, you need to use an ammeter or a simple tester. you can make one by wiring a bulb and battery in series and connect the wires to the black and red wires coming out of the stator. really is worth making one of these or buying an ammeter. make sure the ammeter has an audible continuity facility and crocodile clips. assuming you have a wired bulb.(3) turn the flywheel so that the bulb just goes out. check the measurement on the plunger if its within the tolerences great, if not then the timing need to be adjusted. (4) take the flywheel off. slacken off the 3 screws holding the stator plate in position. (5) Turn the stator clockwise to advance the timing or couter clockwise to retard the timing. you only need to move it slightly, tighten the 3 screws. (6) replace the flywheel (make sure that the flywheel is fully on the shaft) i put the nut back on and do it up. Repeat 1 through to 3 to check that it is correct. If it is, great, tighten the fly wheel fully and remove the tool from the spark plug hole. if not correct then repeat the process. dont worry mate if you are gonna own a bully for a while you will get quite expert at this. But seriously, scour fleabay, auto jumbles for another flywheel that you can take the centre out of by drilling the rivets out. makes the whole process a piece of cake. Stick with it and hope that this helps, it works for me, my 198 starts within 3 kicks. you could do away with all this and go for an electronic ignition with the added bonus of a massive spark. i have re-read this a couple of times and think that i have listed everything. i am sure the more experienced bultaco guys in here may have a better process. Good luck, Tom, hi tom thanks for your help. i have got the electronic ignition of bultaco uk. but im having problems puting the flywheel on. it gose on so far but its not going all the way. i think its the woodroof key not siding in proper. i rang bultaco uk yesterday thinking they give me the wrong ignition. but theres only one typ that they do so i must be doing somthing wrong. the magneto fits on with out the woodroof key so the problem i gess is the woodroof key. cant be anything else. bultaco uk said they sell loads and never had this problem before so it must be me. anyway im going to give it anougher go today and see how i get on.and if i cant get it on im going back to points. dont want to but not much choice if it wont fit. thats why i asked about seting points.and timing. thanks again tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulltaco Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 (edited) The half round type of key can sometimes move inwards when you push the flywheel on, jamming the flywheel from going in fully. You could check for burrs on the key and put a drop of loctite in the slot on the shaft.(clean it first). Make sure the key is tapped fully down in the slot. Edited April 16, 2011 by bulltaco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted April 16, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 The half round type of key can sometimes move inwards when you push the flywheel on, jamming the flywheel from going in fully. You could check for burrs on the key and put a drop of loctite in the slot on the shaft.(clean it first). Make sure the key is tapped fully down in the slot. hi thanks for your advice. and i understand where your comming from about the woodroof key. i dont think its that. ive put the normal ignition plate back on and it goses on first time no problemes. i really think ive been unlucky and got a dogy one. it happend when i got a new swing arm convertion kit.and i got the wrong fiting kit with it. ti wasnt bultaco uks falt it was the place where they got it from. so it can happen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewson Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 the magneto fits on with out the woodroof key so the problem i gess is the woodroof key. cant be anything else Chris you have answered your own question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted April 16, 2011 Report Share Posted April 16, 2011 try the key in the magneto does it fit.. if not take a file to the woodruff key then a little loctite in the slot and your up and running.. made my own woodruff keys fron steel bar in the past should nt take ten minutes.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bultacosteve Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Hello mate, firstly you have to set the correct gap at the points, which is 0.35 to 0.45mm or 0.013 to 0.017 in old money. Bit fiddly this bit, as you only have the little window in the flywheel to work through, unless you have an old flywheel that you can take apart and just use the cam. i will assume that you dont have this luxury. you adjust the points through the window using 2 small screwdrivers and a set of feeler gauges set within the tolerences above. i find 0.40mm works for me. turn the flywheel by hand so that the points are fully open. check the gap. adust the gap by slightly undoing the larger of the 2 screws on the points. with another screwdriver turn the smaller screw to adjust the gap in the points. the feeler gauge should slightly drag on the face of the points. remove the feeler gauge still maintaining the points gap by holding the small screw with a screw driver. using another screwdriver do up the larger screw and recheck the points gap. most probably find the gap is incorrect, if its within the tolerences above ok, if not try adjusting again, will take a few stabs to get it right, stick with it as this needs to be bang on, to be able to set the timing. next thing is to set the timing which is 2.8mm to 3.00mm before top dead centre (BTDC) this is where the piston needs to be in the barrel when the points are closing. to get this measurement you will need a timing tool. these are cheap and can be got from bultaco uk or sammy millers. i have a micrometer timing tool which is a little more expensive but more accurate. (1) take out the spark plug and insert the timing tool finger tight. turn the flywheel by hand so that the piston pushes the plunger in the tool to furthest it will go before dropping down again. this is the top dead centre of the pistons stroke.(2) turn the flywheel counterclock wise slowly untill the plunger in the tool has dropped 2.8mm to 3.0mm this is when the points should be starting to seperate. to check this with any accuracy, you need to use an ammeter or a simple tester. you can make one by wiring a bulb and battery in series and connect the wires to the black and red wires coming out of the stator. really is worth making one of these or buying an ammeter. make sure the ammeter has an audible continuity facility and crocodile clips. assuming you have a wired bulb.(3) turn the flywheel so that the bulb just goes out. check the measurement on the plunger if its within the tolerences great, if not then the timing need to be adjusted. (4) take the flywheel off. slacken off the 3 screws holding the stator plate in position. (5) Turn the stator clockwise to advance the timing or couter clockwise to retard the timing. you only need to move it slightly, tighten the 3 screws. (6) replace the flywheel (make sure that the flywheel is fully on the shaft) i put the nut back on and do it up. Repeat 1 through to 3 to check that it is correct. If it is, great, tighten the fly wheel fully and remove the tool from the spark plug hole. if not correct then repeat the process. dont worry mate if you are gonna own a bully for a while you will get quite expert at this. But seriously, scour fleabay, auto jumbles for another flywheel that you can take the centre out of by drilling the rivets out. makes the whole process a piece of cake. Stick with it and hope that this helps, it works for me, my 198 starts within 3 kicks. you could do away with all this and go for an electronic ignition with the added bonus of a massive spark. i have re-read this a couple of times and think that i have listed everything. i am sure the more experienced bultaco guys in here may have a better process. Good luck, Tom, Perfect description of how to set points on these bikes. If you can do em on the bultaco you can set timing on anything. My only suggestion is the use of a seperate flywheel to set the ignition. Only problem with that is the points cam on the inside of the flywheel can wear at different rates from flywheel to flywheel so best to use the one you are going to run with when setting up points Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 try the key in the magneto does it fit.. if not take a file to the woodruff key then a little loctite in the slot and your up and running.. made my own woodruff keys fron steel bar in the past should nt take ten minutes.. hi yes the woodruff key fits in the magneto no trouble. and ive tryed puting the old ignition plate back on.and the magneto fits on with out any problems ive been on to bultaco uk he said send it back so he can try it on one of his bikes. may be just unlucky and got a bad one so ill send it monday and wait. and see what he says. i really dont think its the key i sat for hours trying it but to my disapointment gave up. ive tryd fiting the plate in the magneto it fits ok but i dont think it gose in far enough to take all the woodruff key. and its got a slight wobble from side to side. and allso when i try and tighten the nut up on the magneto it just locks the magneto up wont turn at all. thats way i think its not going in far enough my gess would be the plate has been milled to thick and thats why its not allowing the magneto to go in far enough. hope im right because ill look a fool if its not. bultaco uk said they sell loads. and never had this before but theres allways a first time i sopose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 the magneto fits on with out the woodroof key so the problem i gess is the woodroof key. cant be anything else Chris you have answered your own question hi keigh i tryd ringing you yesterday. im going on this trials holiday in 4 weeks so im trying to get me bult sorted. ive had it runing and she pulls ok been up and down the road a few times trouble is i have to put fuel down the head to get her going some times she dose kick up. ive sorted that leak out on the gear shaft ive got the ignition plate off got to send the eletronic on back monday to see if dave and pete at bultaco uk can throw any light on it. mean wile ive took the crank shat plate off and took the seals out they was abit worn so ill replace them why ive got the ignition off. if i dont have any joy with this eletronic ignition ill have to go with points and im not looking forward to it if i do. never done points and timing before. allthough the plate as been marked and theres a mark that it matches up with for the timing. i know this dosant mean that the timing is right but its a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewson Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Chris does the new electronic back plate fit it inside your flywheel ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted April 17, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Chris does the new electronic back plate fit it inside your flywheel ????? hi keith yes it fits inside my magneto. but dosant go over the back plate witch i dont think it should do. the onley thing i can think of is that the back plate is to thick not leting the magneto go in far enough. and the other thing i cant get my head around is i know its not the woodruff key. and why is it locking up when i tighten the nut up. the crank shaft onley lets the magneto go so fare on my gess is the magneto is toutching the back plate not leting it go fare enough cant think why it locks up thow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hewson Posted April 17, 2011 Report Share Posted April 17, 2011 Are you using the back plate fixing screws that came with the kit ????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bondy Posted April 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 18, 2011 Are you using the back plate fixing screws that came with the kit ????? hi keith yes im using the scerws that came with the kit why would this be the problem? cant see how tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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