beatabeta Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 Bit distant to riding/attending trials at the mo so apologies if this is common knowledge. Are Montesa making a new bike at all? Last I heard was of a 2 stroke. Is this rumour or have they said / done anything? Ta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted April 25, 2011 Report Share Posted April 25, 2011 i know nowt but what i do know is that honda as a brand see two stroke motor as untenable in any circumstance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatabeta Posted April 26, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 i know nowt but what i do know is that honda as a brand see two stroke motor as untenable in any circumstance Mmmmm so maybe not! So are they still making new 4RT's or are they just getting someone to slap stickers on a 2007/8/9 etc and calling it a 2011 (is there even a 2011 model) If Honda are so anti 2 stroke surely they would allow Montesa to make/develop a new engine or bike under the Montesa name whilst putting support etc into the project as HRC. Seems a pity that they are missing out (albeit on a TINY market for Honda) for the sake of not making a new bike! Obviously my knowledge of Montesa's and their plan is minimal but a few years ago they were everywhere at trials now I see b*gger all anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightfeet Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) I honestly think killing off the 2 stroke will be the undoing of Honda. They need obviously to go down the Skidoo E-Tec route, with its clean fuel injected 2 stroke, the future of 2 strokes could be SO SO bright but Honda are not helping at all. I have high hopes for ossa's return to trials, and think as a much smaller niche company there development of a fuel injected 2 stroke is good. I would really love to see someone like KTM make a trials bike I think they would be an awesome alternative to your gas gas etc as build quality is very good from them and they certainly have the brains available to develop something. I do honestly think it will be another 3 or 4 years before we realistically see a massive revival of 2 strokes in the dirt bike department. Kind of makes me wish I was rich so I could start to develop it myself. Edited April 26, 2011 by Lightfeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motovita Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 I honestly think killing off the 2 stroke will be the undoing of Honda. Honda's future rests on a two stroke dirt bike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightfeet Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 (edited) Glad that amused your obviously immature brain, nowhere did I quote that Hondas Future rests on a s stroke anything mate, obviously im not talking about the Honda Corporation. This is a trials forums hence the discussion is based around the trials department of HRC/Montesa. I mean it will be there loss if they dont develop something for the 2 stroke fans as someone else will/has. Edited April 26, 2011 by Lightfeet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikepilot Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Honda did develop some advanced, clean two strokes. The later CRM250 was relatively clean and quite an interesting bike. The EXP bikes ("works" only) that they ran around in the desert with in the late 1990s were ultra-clean two strokes, and reputedly quite fast. Yamaha led the charge though and got the AMA and FIM to implement rules heavily favoring thumpers in MX/SX and that, I think, really swayed things. In any event, I'd absolutely love a modern DI two stroke - both for my trials bike and dirt/mx bikes. I also think its a real shame that no major companies are making/distributing trials bikes. I think that they'd be hugely more popular, at least in the US if they were readily available. Its astoundingly difficult to actually buy a trials bike and half the riders I meet or more don't even know what they are. If all (or even many) honda powersports dealers also sold montesa trials bikes it'd completely re-shape the trials industry in the states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
totalshell Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 ktm spotted an opportunity in enduros when local events strted taking off and made a reliable ( ultra reliable) product even if it was pricing they also made it available in mainstream dealers so dirt junkies/ enduro riders and importantly road riders saw the bikes looked at the value for money and bought them in there hundreds and the no.s doing H and H's today back that up whereas in trials the numbers competing are falling lie autumns leaves ( the british championship only attract 10 for the championship class and only 2 or 3 drop less than 50 so its hardly encouraging riders off the street to join in.. and as long as it continues then trials will become more and more niche. the only growth is in twin shock and p65 and beginner trials as lads who just want a comfortable sunday ride jump in. Honda will never make another two stroke motor either under thier own name or a spanish acronym. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Unfortunately trials is no more than a potential marketing exercise for the Japs. There is very little manufacturing or economic sense in making a few hundred trials bikes. Honda are dominating the trials world in their eyes with Mr Bou so why change philosophy. If they are not dominating and want to they will just buy the best rider and make their bike work. If you have any doubts about when Honda get serious look at the money spent on the old oval piston 4 stroke GP bike before they went 2 stroke with Freddie Spencer or the fact they developed and built a new F1 engine within a 6 week time scale - if that does not impress you then you have no idea about manufacturing. Only in the face of ultimate defeat or embarrassment will they consider a 2t. (being beat in trials I don't thing equates to this) Trials is so unimportant they will walk away with numerous world titles than change company philosophy. Remember the 80's with RTLs rule the world then depart! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Unfortunately trials is no more than a potential marketing exercise for the Japs. There is very little manufacturing or economic sense in making a few hundred trials bikes. Honda are dominating the trials world in their eyes with Mr Bou so why change philosophy. If they are not dominating and want to they will just buy the best rider and make their bike work. If you have any doubts about when Honda get serious look at the money spent on the old oval piston 4 stroke GP bike before they went 2 stroke with Freddie Spencer or the fact they developed and built a new F1 engine within a 6 week time scale - if that does not impress you then you have no idea about manufacturing. Only in the face of ultimate defeat or embarrassment will they consider a 2t. (being beat in trials I don't thing equates to this) Trials is so unimportant they will walk away with numerous world titles than change company philosophy. Remember the 80's with RTLs rule the world then depart! I really can't fathom why montesa each year convince Honda to loose money. Any one know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmyl Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 I believe that a Trials World Championship is the cheapest world championship title by miles for Honda to achieve. Cheap beer for their marketing budget. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 I believe that a Trials World Championship is the cheapest world championship title by miles for Honda to achieve. Cheap beer for their marketing budget. That's the one - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bikepilot Posted April 26, 2011 Report Share Posted April 26, 2011 Honda also fitted that batteryless EFI setup to their two premier MX bikes. Don't know how much it was based of the 4RT R&D effort, but no doubt they at least shared notes a bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyboxer Posted April 27, 2011 Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Honda also fitted that batteryless EFI setup to their two premier MX bikes. Don't know how much it was based of the 4RT R&D effort, but no doubt they at least shared notes a bit. Did the 4RT pre-date it in 2004/2005 or was the Honda MX earlier? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatabeta Posted April 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted April 27, 2011 Honda are dominating the trials world in their eyes with Mr Bou so why change philosophy. But thats my point. Why are they spending money on this by giving Bou a great (albeit different to standard) bike, watching him smash everyone to pieces on it, spending Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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