Derbyshire Dales Farce

[5again]

Hopefully an isolated incident, was there some explanation or mitigation circumstance? Otherwise there were plenty of time penalties dished out, I know I got some, but it was fair. Similarly a mate pressed on to avoid penalties ruining a good ride, however probably suffered a little for doing so, as with observing judgement as long as the rules were applied consistently, no problem with it.

Section wise this (imho) this was about the best laid out for some time on this event, top job MM. However quite a slow / longish section early in the event, the first group only a mile from the start on the route card, meant everybody was still bunched up, combined with having to go back to the observer to get punched meant delays. Likewise the mud slot at Ible had the same effect.

[steve]

I rode the event in the over 40's class and time was pretty tight. I helped a fellow rider who'd run out of fuel pushing him from the last group to the fuel stop. By the time is got sorted is dropped a fair way back in the running order, the only way I could make time up without rudely pushing in was by passing a few riders on the road but mainly by barely looking at the sections ! Not ideal but it worked and I finished with just seconds to spare. This did However have a big impact on my score, I went the wrong way in one section and nearly did the same in 2 others dropping me from what should have been 2nd or 3rd to 7th.

Anyway, moving on from my self misery! My point is that I compromised my score to finish on time, I'd love to know why another rider wasn't penalized for time.

[nigel dabster]

I rode the event in the over 40's class and time was pretty tight. I helped a fellow rider who'd run out of fuel pushing him from the last group to the fuel stop. By the time is got sorted is dropped a fair way back in the running order, the only way I could make time up without rudely pushing in was by passing a few riders on the road but mainly by barely looking at the sections ! Not ideal but it worked and I finished with just seconds to spare. This did However have a big impact on my score, I went the wrong way in one section and nearly did the same in 2 others dropping me from what should have been 2nd or 3rd to 7th.

Anyway, moving on from my self misery! My point is that I compromised my score to finish on time, I'd love to know why another rider wasn't penalized for time.

The particular rider concernered had a valid reason for his delay and his time limit was waved, from what I have been told.

I would imagine if anyone would like to loose their

[totalshell]

' a valid reason' i once overheard a rider been told by the CoC that even though he'd stopped to help the bobbies at an accident that that wasnt a good enough reason.

[pete_scorpa3]

The particular rider concernered had a valid reason for his delay and his time limit was waved, from what I have been told.

I would imagine if anyone would like to loose their

[nigel dabster]

All protests must be made within 30 minutes of the results being announced.

Correct.

according to page 496 of the acu handbook the nsc states that protests can be heard up to 14 days after, i assume that the supplementary regulation supercedes the nsc? Half an hour doesn't seem right or fair perhaps John collins could comment.

[jimmyl]

Steve -not sure if it was you that pushed me back after the last group before fuel stop but if so much appreciated - if not thanks to the rider that did. Apologies if it spoiled your score.

I made it back in time (just) but had to be super quick through the few groups after the petrol stop with only a quick glance and then a sprint back to the bike. (I enquired at punch card change if time was still the same and was told it was)

The road markings where a bit hit and miss but I think this was more due to the wind turning the markers on the sign posts.

I really enjoyed the ride round and thought it was a good trial. With the mixed level of machines and riders it is necessary to have several tricky bits per section rather than one really hard bit but that can add to section length.

Punch cards are nice as you know your score - especially with no stop rules - but do take a little longer to process.

Thanks to MM

[d230]

There can be reasons for an individual riders time penalties being removed, for example if a rider stops to help a genuinely injured rider who needs assistance and this delay is confirmed by the organisers.

So we shouldn't jump to any conclusions unless we know the whole story.

I was at the finish when the results were announced and I can confirm that the rider (I believe to be) in question was NOT excluded on time WHEN the results were read out.

[pete_scorpa3]

according to page 496 of the acu handbook the nsc states that protests can be heard up to 14 days after, i assume that the supplementary regulation supercedes the nsc? Half an hour doesn't seem right or fair perhaps John collins could comment.

Take another look at page 490 of the NSC.

Para 10.04.3 number 1.

The results were announced on the day, therefore the 30 minutes for a written appeal stands.

Not withstanding this, it would still be interesting to hear the reason given to the original author of this post for what happened. There may be a perfectly logical reason.

[nigel dabster]

Take another look at page 490 of the NSC.

Para 10.04.3 number 1.

The results were announced on the day, therefore the 30 minutes for a written appeal stands.

Not withstanding this, it would still be interesting to hear the reason given to the original author of this post for what happened. There may be a perfectly logical reason.

However as the agrieved person has clearly stated the results changed once published, surely the 14 days comes back into play?????

[pete_scorpa3]

However as the agrieved person has clearly stated the results changed once published, surely the 14 days comes back into play?????

I stand to be corrected, but I don't think that was what he was saying.

He meant that the original entry on the score board stated "Excluded" but this was removed prior to the results being announced on the day.

If this is the case, then a protest should have been made in writing within 30 minutes of the results being announced.

Such a protest then has to be dealt with within 14 days.

As no protest was made, the result has to stand.

I can understand him feeling disapointed at this, but unless we know the whole story we're only guessing as to what actually occured to necesitate the change he is refering to.

Edited May 29, 2011 by Pete_Scorpa3

[woody]

30 minutes seems an ill thought out time limit.

I'm not citing this case specifically but just for argument's sake, it's possible to know a rider is going to be over time and liable to exclusion before seeing any results. You then leave the trial and the results are subsequently published on the scoreboard at the trial. You only see them when you next check a website or receive them in the post, so how can you protest within 30 mins?

Finding pen and paper to submit a written application in the middle of a field would be an intereting excercise as well.

Getting back to this particular case, if someone knows the reason for time being scrubbed at this trial then why not just put it on here (was it the time limit that was scrubbed or just one individual's time penalty) It's just a trial, it's not the official secrets act and I can't see why it is a problem to say so and so was late and had their time scrubbed because of whatever, or, the time limit was scrubbed for this or that reason. I can understand the original poster not wanting to complain directly about someone, but I can't see anything wrong with someone just stating what happened.

Without the facts this discussion is pretty meaningless unless it is just about protest procedures in general.

[d230]

30 minutes seems an ill thought out time limit.

I'm not citing this case specifically but just for argument's sake, it's possible to know a rider is going to be over time and liable to exclusion before seeing any results. You then leave the trial and the results are subsequently published on the scoreboard at the trial. You only see them when you next check a website or receive them in the post, so how can you protest within 30 mins?

Finding pen and paper to submit a written application in the middle of a field would be an intereting excercise as well.

Getting back to this particular case, if someone knows the reason for time being scrubbed at this trial then why not just put it on here (was it the time limit that was scrubbed or just one individual's time penalty) It's just a trial, it's not the official secrets act and I can't see why it is a problem to say so and so was late and had their time scrubbed because of whatever, or, the time limit was scrubbed for this or that reason. I can understand the original poster not wanting to complain directly about someone, but I can't see anything wrong with someone just stating what happened.

Without the facts this discussion is pretty meaningless unless it is just about protest procedures in general.

The rider in question was already over 50 mins late at the punch card change (he was was still @ section 3 when riders with nunbers in the 50s arrived. He always hangs back.

His mitigating "reason" was acceped un-verified, regarding a reason on the second punch card and the over riding individual was not the clerk of the course !

When the said individual allowed the rider an extra 20mins (still the reason was un-verified) he was informed that this still meant exclution; he then said to remove all the time penalties.

I am aware of a verbal protest on the day but this was disguarded as apparently the 30 min time limit had passed !!!! There were still riders arriving back to sign off at this point !

The bottam line is that "the club would not dare upset this individual"

[mavric]

We all win some & we all loose some.

As long as there is consistencey, that's the best we can hope for.

I don't think that I've rode a trial where the rules are applied 100% especially no stop.

Edited May 30, 2011 by mavric

[wri5hty]

With regards to the 30 Min's/14 days rule.

yes you have 30 Min's to protest the final results on the day, but i believe these are preliminary results.

the published results (web site or mailed to riders) are full and final results so riders have 14 days to protest any discrepancies.

on both account in writing with