bogwheel Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Somewhere i was advised to strobe / set timing on an electronic ignition at 3500prm (Electrex World) If this is so, could someone enlighten me as to what throttle opening this would be please? M199 sherpa- Many thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechitlins Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 My guess is that if there's no automatic advance/retard, the RPM wouldn't make any difference. You could look at the timing mark(with strobe) and see if anything begins to change as revs build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trial pat Posted July 5, 2011 Report Share Posted July 5, 2011 My guess is that if there's no automatic advance/retard, the RPM wouldn't make any difference. You could look at the timing mark(with strobe) and see if anything begins to change as revs build. I did some trial and errror, just moving in small steps and try in the same section to find the best timing... Regards Pat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charliechitlins Posted July 6, 2011 Report Share Posted July 6, 2011 Believe it or not....this might not be the best method. The "timing-by-ear" method that many of us learned way back when, for cars (advance it until it pops, then back off a hair), doesn't necessarily work for less forgiving air-cooled engines. I've never timed one without a light, but I'd be reluctant to say that what feels best actually is best. What makes the most horsepower, for instance, just might cause the engine to run too hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogwheel Posted July 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Thanks I asume the Electrex World ignition has auto advance. Using a strobe the timing mark advances about 8 to 10 deg from 1/8 to 1/2 throttle. So if timing is too advanced engine will run hot? Bike originally had a suzuki stator and flywheel that worked great before it wore out. When i purchased the Electrex World ignition i got a bultaco flywheel that was strobed and marked at full advance on a M198 (250). Not sure what do do timing wise, have been told different stories ie. set at 3500rpm- 1/2 throttle(15 to 18 deg btdc), or just install as per the instructions (10 deg btdc). Any idea what is the equal in mm please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 10, 2011 Report Share Posted July 10, 2011 Now I know this isn't really going to be of any help to you but I really don't understand Electrex. They make the ignition, they presumably know exactly the position that the stator fits onto the crankcase - why don't they just put a bloody mark on the stator that sits at 12 o'clock with the piston at TDC. That's it, no need for degrees, no need for timing guns, no need for constant confusion to the people who buy them and then can't fit them. Just buy it, screw it on, fire up the bike and ride it. Or is that too simple. Bit of a rant I know (I'm peed at having just wasted 2 hours watching the film After Life on Sky) but I just don't see why they can't do that. Every person I know has had bother fitting an Electrex, regardless of the make of bike. Add that to the number of people on here questioning the fitting instructions. Customers shouldn't have to be p****** about with dial guages, degree dials, algorithms and slide rules. How can they make something so simple so complicated? Maybe I'm missing something fundamental in my state of angst... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogwheel Posted July 11, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 Instructions are clear and easy - bolt on and go. But runs hot and like a dog compared to the old RL ignition. Might just go back to points! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 If it runs like that then the instructions are wrong or the ignition is not working correctly. Out of the few people I know that have bought Electrex kits( not just Bultaco, Sprite and Montesa) none of them have been able to just bolt it on and ride the bike, there have been problems of some sort or another involving phone calls and discussions to try and resolve them - Timing marks in the wrong place, reversed polarity, bike won't run, it runs but pops and bags. The Montesa saga went on for months with two solutions that didn't resolve it but as the bike has since been stripped for a rebuild we still don't know if the last 'fix' works or not, but the owner will never buy an Electrex kit again. If I was in your position and still wanted electronic I'd return it and demand a refund, then buy a Rex Caunt or Bultaco UK ignition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedronicman Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 The reason why the Sherpa stator plate has no mark on it is because ALL sherpas use DIFFERENT timing to one another they all have a differnt timing spec to one another. The newer generation electronic ignition systems that Bultaco UK sell have an automatic advance and retard built into the system so no need to set to different positions as this takes care of it. No need to adjust anything , no timing ,no strobe light or anything needed - just bolt it on and ride- simple. It can only be mounted in one position - no hassle! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bultoboy Posted July 11, 2011 Report Share Posted July 11, 2011 got to say Woody you are bang on the money!!! I have bought 2 electronic ignition systems from dave at bultaco uk both different for different models and both been used on another engine wilst the originals had work done. Both bolt on kick over and away you go one engine has not even had the spark plug changed in two years and still fires second kick!!! I then bought an ignition system from electex world for my ajs stormer and my good what a pain in the rectum. 1st of all no instructions, second of all only one guy in the comany knew how to set this particular system up and he was on holiday, 3rd of all when the guy came back he got it wrong!!! eventually my dad sat out in the garage and with a lot of tea and an occasional curse and a spanner flying he sorted it. not only that it cost 100 quid more then the bultaco's ignition ah well it works now lets hope i don't have to take it off any time soon rant over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple_x Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hi I am satisfied user of the Elextrex sytem on my Sherpa and will certainly buy another when my 198a is complete. It was simple to install worked properly from the start and has been trouble free! It really is simple, bolt into position as instructed. Where it can be confusing is that the system advances by 10 degrees as the engine runs and this is not clear. The effect of this is that the engine starts easier at this setting. I checked it with a strobe and the timing was spot on. I did spend quite a bit of time fiddling to get the timing to suit my riding style and retarded it a bit. Anyway I am happy. Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bogwheel Posted July 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Thanks Triple_X So install in centre position as instructions and fine tune from there? Yes i am confused with the auto advance - what i don't understand is that the strobe shows that it only starts to advance over about 1/3 throttle, so riding at crawling speed it will be retarded?? Anyway, i will go with your suggestion and see how it goes. At least your way i think it will not be over advanced. One thing i found is that whatever position the stator plate is in, the bike starts very easy and really responds when you give it a hand full, but jerky at crawly speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feetupfun Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Thanks Triple_X So install in centre position as instructions and fine tune from there? Yes i am confused with the auto advance - what i don't understand is that the strobe shows that it only starts to advance over about 1/3 throttle, so riding at crawling speed it will be retarded?? Anyway, i will go with your suggestion and see how it goes. At least your way i think it will not be over advanced. One thing i found is that whatever position the stator plate is in, the bike starts very easy and really responds when you give it a hand full, but jerky at crawly speed. The idea of having an advance curve is so that the timing is ideal for different RPM. When the motor is turning at the slow end of the scale, it is better if the spark happens just before top dead centre and when the RPM is at the top end, it is better to have the spark happening earlier (more advanced) so that when the big push is happening the piston is starting to go down. Ignitions that do not have an advance curve suffer from being a bit too advanced at low RPM and a bit too retarded at high RPM. People set fixed ignition to what they consider is ideal for how they ride. There is no perfect setting for everyone but the manufacturers suggestion is usually close to what most people like. For your new ignition with its built in advance curve, you should set it to what works best for you, on your bike, not necessarily what other people have done. I would like to help more but need more info about the behaviour of the motor. Communication by typing is very difficult for things like this and I'm having dificulty with what you are meaning to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple_x Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Hi I set it up in the central position and all was fine. However over time I have advanced it 3 graduations (rotated it clockwise) and that suits my riding and pulls very slowly and smoothly from low revs with bags of top end. But my engine has been ported, so I am unable to confirm if my settings will suit your engine. But good luck, I know it is a nuisance but really just play around with it until you are happy and the power suits your riding. Regards Martin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triple_x Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 (edited) One other thing. Just remember these bike are at least 30 years old and who can say what has been fettled or played with. So be patient, check that all the other bits are in A1 condition:- compression, crank seals, no air leaks, carb is in a good state of repair, air filter clean and that you are using the High Octane unleaded fuel with around 40-1 semi synthetic oil (bear in mind synthetic oils were not around when Bultaco's were made). Then you at least know everything is correct when you set the timing. It really is worth the effort, as my model 80 engined Sherpa is more fun to ride than my GAS GAS. Martin Edited July 13, 2011 by Triple_X Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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