gilbertdave Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Hi all, After twiddling my thumbs for an hour or so this evening, I thought I'd be a model citizen and change the gear oil in my bike. I've not had it that long, so this is the first time. I went and bought some Castrol ATF Dex III "transmax" advanced performance series oil (?). Assuming this is the same Dextron III everybody on here talks about? I drained the fluid and what came out kind of looked like baileys / chocolate milk. I'm not sure this is a great sign . As i had no idea whther ATF is a delightful milky brown by design, I poured a little drop into my drain tray so i could see the colour... its red... more worrying is the fact that when it mixed with what came out my bike, it rose to the top. A childhood staring at oily puddles by race tracks tells me oil is lighter than water and floats. So... is my milky brown oil really an expensive watery cocktail or should i just change the oil and ride the bike and stop worrying? If it is water, is there any way for it to get contaminated under normal use or have i got a problem? If it helps, the bike had been running ok... starts first time, selects all gears. It is a little bit stubborn to get into neutral, but other than all hunky dory. Any an all advise would be welcome Thanks, Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dombush Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 Dave as you say it sounds very much like water in your gearbox oil. Whilst not ideal, unless the bike / clutch has been used hard it will probably be ok. My gasgas pro and 2 others i've ridden all have slight clutch drag that mean changing into neutral cant be done whilst moving. Usually i find neutral by hand, this is quite normal. Dom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertdave Posted July 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 So, you don't reckon I need to worry about the oil? I guess if I change the oil and ride it, I'll know if the problem is still occurring! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7 Posted July 12, 2011 Report Share Posted July 12, 2011 your water pump seal has gone,must be changed soon as pos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertdave Posted July 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 Ok, so that kind of makes sense... The bike has over heated a couple of times. I identified a leak in the rad which has now been repaired (plus I've ordered a replacement. But, would it makes sense that if the water system is losing pressure, it won't cool very well. I'll order a seal kit for the water pump and get that done... Any other tips? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowbrow Posted July 13, 2011 Report Share Posted July 13, 2011 While you have the coolant drained down I'd also change the 'O' rings that seal the head to the barrel so you know everything is good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertdave Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 I spoke to few people yesterday whilst tryign to get various parts delivered and it seems there is now some clear options. It also came clearer that I have two seperate problems. The first is cooling and the second is the issue with the discoloured oil. From a cooling point of view, there are a few theories... If the impeller is not spinning or not properly cycling the water, I will be getting mis-leading temperature sensor readings and it would not engage the fan. Alternatively, the fan contol unit is on its way out and replacing it may solve all my woes. Both problems seem relatively easy to fix. From an oil point of view, I did actually get told yesterday that ATF oil does turn brown if you leave it long enough (an indication to the previous owners maintenance regime). I'm told if there was water in there it would be white, not brown. Either way, the most likely cause of water getting in there seems to be the water pump seals and as the kit isn't stupid money, it may be prudent to change it all any way. So, on order at the moment is a water pump kit, crankcase gasket and fan control unit / relay. Fingers crossed for a quick / inexpensive resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertdave Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 Oh, and cylinder head o rings... Also forgot to mention that so far my efforts have been mostly counter productive. It seems that who worked on my bike last (or built it in the first place) was not shy with loctite. My oil drain plag is now bu66ered and one of the fixings for the water pump is completely round... not sure how I'm going to get that out, but at least I know what I'll be doing this evening! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted July 14, 2011 Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 (edited) Oh, and cylinder head o rings... Also forgot to mention that so far my efforts have been mostly counter productive. It seems that who worked on my bike last (or built it in the first place) was not shy with loctite. My oil drain plag is now bu66ered and one of the fixings for the water pump is completely round... not sure how I'm going to get that out, but at least I know what I'll be doing this evening! I hate to get on my soapbox again, but the #1 reason for stripped out drainplugs and Allen capscrews (there is no Loctite on either one from the factory) is old Allen wrenches. They wear with age and should be dressed (take about 5mm off the end) now and then to keep the side flutes sharp. To get the capscrew and drainplug out, use a Torx bit and tap it in and then you can unscrew the screw/plug out (and re-install till you get new one). A T-45 Torx works on the drainplug and maybe a T-25 Torx on the 4mm head capscrews (not positive on that but a T-15 Torx works on a 3mm capscrew). Jon, off the soapbox now... ps. If you have a new bike with the S3 two-piece head, also check for coolant loss at the top by the plug. I just had one of our clubmembers bikes in the shop that was leaking coolant past the o-ring that seals the combustion chamber insert to the outer piece. It slowly drooled coolant down the front of the cylinder so it wasn't noticed by the rider till it overheated. The standard S3 o-rings were not available here in the U.S. yet so I used one of slightly larger core diameter and it worked fine. Edited July 14, 2011 by JSE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gilbertdave Posted July 14, 2011 Author Report Share Posted July 14, 2011 JSE, defintely wasn't a dig a Gas Gas... I've placed the blame on the allen keys (and a bit on the bloke holding them), but alas they were brand spanking new keys. I actually went and bouht them because my old set were a bit beaten up! How sucky is that. I'll be taking them back to the shop (Halfords if anyone in the UK is interested) and asking for my money and possibly a punch up! Anywho... tomorrow will be a better day (breathe deep and repeat!), tomorrowe will be a better day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 JSE, defintely wasn't a dig a Gas Gas... I've placed the blame on the allen keys (and a bit on the bloke holding them), but alas they were brand spanking new keys. I actually went and bouht them because my old set were a bit beaten up! How sucky is that. I'll be taking them back to the shop (Halfords if anyone in the UK is interested) and asking for my money and possibly a punch up! Anywho... tomorrow will be a better day (breathe deep and repeat!), tomorrowe will be a better day! Not to worry, I didn't even think you were taking a dig at GasGas (those aluminum drainplugs are fragile in my opinion and the aluminum washers need to be replaced now and then or they crush out), I was speaking in gereral terms. I apologize as I'm really not as cranky as the e-mail sounded and I was infering that the previous owner had probably set you up for the stripping problems. Make sure the overflow tube off the radiator cap is not squished by the fuel tank as this will cause pressure to force coolant past an otherwise good seal. I didn't see what year your bike was? Oh, and tomorrow will be a better day.... Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasser_david Posted July 15, 2011 Report Share Posted July 15, 2011 Hello Jon Am I reading your post correctly...in that you couldn't get standard 'O' rings for a new bikes head?? Pretty poor job by importer in my opinion...as not exactly an expensive spare part to stock!! Not familiar with 2 part head..but seems a step backwards to me..just another thing to go wrong..although I stand corrected if I'm talking rubbish david Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Hello Jon Am I reading your post correctly...in that you couldn't get standard 'O' rings for a new bikes head?? Pretty poor job by importer in my opinion...as not exactly an expensive spare part to stock!! Not familiar with 2 part head..but seems a step backwards to me..just another thing to go wrong..although I stand corrected if I'm talking rubbish david David, I don't think you're talking rubbish. It was not really a big problem and the first time I had heard of the o-ring causing difficulty. The importer has ordered a shipment of them for the future and the parts importer has been really responsive to dealers needs in my experience. Considering they carry parts dating back to the 80's and how many parts there are in each model since then, they do an amazing job. The two-piece head with replaceable combustion chamber is a very valuable tuning tool and the concept has been around for some time and is well-proven. A lot of us are heading to Colorado next month for the Ute Cup 2-day Trial held at 8,000-13,000 ft altitude and the S3 head with a high-compression chamber insert will be a big help with engine performance. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasser_david Posted July 17, 2011 Report Share Posted July 17, 2011 Jon Your reply was informative. Forgot about the far larger elevation changes that you have in US. Not a problem in my area of UK. All the best david Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jse Posted July 18, 2011 Report Share Posted July 18, 2011 Jon Your reply was informative. Forgot about the far larger elevation changes that you have in US. Not a problem in my area of UK. All the best david David, There are other tuning possibilities. A lower compression insert will yield easier starting and a smoother power delivery. Installing more base gaskets will do the same, but at the cost of altered port timing and excessive squish clearance. A higher compression insert will make the power come on quicker and stronger, which may suit higher level riders so the two-piece head has applications in a lot of areas. Jon Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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