deonattard Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 Thanks for the information. I think I'll hold out some hope and hold tight until we can test the battery kit. My father can kick the bike over, he's not a whimp. But he can't kick it as hard as someone taller and heavier. It just doesn't start for him in few enough kicks that he's not worn out by the time it does actually start. I believe the units the importer is arranging for me will probably be prototype version. I've seen whats inside one and its just 8x 1.2v AA batteries packaged together with a switch - there doesn't appear to be anything high tech in the photo I've seen which leads to the question, why have they taken so long to release this product? You could make it in 30 minutes with parts from an electronics store. Mcim - on your bike do you still have the coil or did you replace the coil with the battery kit? I am concerned that there maybe some other issue with the battery kit as I do not understand the hold up in supplying this item. I know they are saying they are using them all on the factory and explorer bikes and have no spare stock to sell after-market but that has to be rubbish - you could mass produce these things in minutes and for very little cost. Its 8x batteries, some shrink wrap, few leads, a switch and a plastic box to package it (from the photos I've seen), very simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micm Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 My pack is about 9 rechargeable batteries I guess around 1.2v each, it was shrink wrapped so I cannot see the contact arrangement ie if in series or parallel. The switch is just that a simple metal switch. We made a cover ourselves to protect the batteries and swapped it for what we think is the capacitor on the front headstock. I can imagine that it could be a hassle to get a proper component made unless it is going to be a standard item on future bikes. That is something tough and light to hold the batteries and suitable fixing to go on the bike, plus a nifty switch fitted somewhere a bit like a Gasser mode switch that is located under the tank. However although what I have is basic and not waterproof really, it still does the trick. Also I am told by an Ossa rider that all the 280is entered in the recent Scottish Six Day Trial started normally all week, no batteries!! Muy confusing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taff_d Posted May 22, 2012 Report Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) My father can kick the bike over, he's not a whimp. But he can't kick it as hard as someone taller and heavier. You would never over bike a child so why over bike your father ? get him a bike he can start for gods sake. Edited May 22, 2012 by Taff_d Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deonattard Posted May 23, 2012 Report Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) You would never over bike a child so why over bike your father ? get him a bike he can start for gods sake. Definitely, if the battery kit doesn't work out I'm getting him a Beta 200 and hope I don't loose too much money in the process. That being said, he kicked a Sherco 290 and Gas Gas 280 I think it was on the weekend and he fired them both cold without any trouble. Its only the Ossa's that we find to be a pig to start. The Ossa is a very easy bike for a clubman rider to use, I don't think its overkill in anyway. Hopefully they battery kit will work as promised. Edited May 23, 2012 by DeonAttard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada280i Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Deon, did you receive the battery pack yet and if so does it work for you and your dad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhadams Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) New on this forum, but following the discussions here for some time. Have bought myself a 2012 Ossa TR280i, and very happy with this bike. Switched to map 13 lately. Cold start OK for me, about 3-4 slow kicks followed by a firm one and it runs. Warm start becoming worse with map 13. I can only start it with one strong kick when standing a bit higher than the ground. When standing on the ground it takes me to many kicks. (65 kgs and 1,75m) Mounted a battery with switch on the steering mounts connected to the white light connector. Capacitor still in place. Cold start 1 kick !, warm start 1 kick ! Because my battery consists of 10 standard AA NimH batteries I do not keep them connected when riding. They get to hot, and I think this needs some special loading electronics. So I switch the battery before starting, start the motor, and switch off the battery. The batteries do not drain quickly and are about 2000mAh Capacitor needed for good running of the fan according to my dealer. For me a perfect (temporary) solution. Edited May 29, 2012 by jhadams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micm Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 Not Deon replying, but the dreaded battery pack has totally cured my starting problems. Rode it last weekend and with pack it just goes every time even having been dropped heavily and ending up upside down etc! Sorry bike. Two riders who had never been near an Ossa before started it second kick. One when it was cold. Re the post from jhadams. My batteries are re chargeable and they are left on all through the event. Never touched the condenser but took off the capacitor and replaced it with batteries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhadams Posted May 29, 2012 Report Share Posted May 29, 2012 (edited) micm, I do mean capacitor (wrong translation my side) edited Edited May 29, 2012 by jhadams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deonattard Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Deon, did you receive the battery pack yet and if so does it work for you and your dad? Yes I did. We received a prototype battery from the factory team at the worlds, arranged by the Australian Distributor. They did promise me two of them on that day and I only have one but this is not a huge issue because we can make the battery now we know what it consists of. The kit was not as plug and play as expected. I received the battery pack which consists of 10x AA 1.2v 2000mAH NiMH batteries welded together. Stacked there is 4 batteries on bottom row, then two rows of 3 batteries. Height and size is about equal to the capacitor. Battery pack was held together with heat shrink and had bare leads comming out of it. Also included was a switch with three terminals on it. I've cut the connector from my capacitor to use with the battery kit and I've run the earth wire from the switch up to the bolt on the kill button on the handle bars - meaning the electrical modifications are minimal. The battery pack replaces the capacitor, it is not in addition to. When you flick the switch, the lights turn on and you hear the fuel pump prime. Even the smallest prod at the kick starter has the fuel pump running for a few seconds. When you hear how long it takes to prime from dead cold you will understand part of the starting issue. It took 6 seconds, given that a kick is about 1 second of power if that, you can guess where the first 6 kicks go in my case. Ok so, battery connected, lights on, fuel pump primed. Dead cold, 3 easy kicks. Once warm, even the laziest kick starts the bike, I'm not going to start it with my hand but it would no doubt be posible because very lazy kick - I mean about 1/3rd of the way through the kick and the bike is already running. I presume a solid kick might fire it up first or second kick from dead cold. I havn't ridden yet because I need to make a bracket to mount the battery. I don't know how long the batteries will last. I can only presume there maybe some durability issue given that they still havn't officially released this as after market kit but anyway for the time being I am super happy. The hardest bike in the paddock to start just maybe now maybe the easiest. I will report more information after field testing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
micm Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Same as mine. We mounted ours in adhesive fabric backed foam rubber and used a basic slotted small galvanised strap about 10 mm wide bent to fit round the pack that screws into the 2 holes that held the capacitor. It works ok but not very high tech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markjw Posted May 30, 2012 Report Share Posted May 30, 2012 Deon excellent news - I think that you have given the best technical explanation as to why the bike takes sometimes many prods to fire into life. Maybe OSSA are trying to get the LSS, very robust and small (light weight) plus be able to be charged on the bike. This may be slowing down the release of it. Sounds though as this may have sloved your porblem as the OSSA is really a great bike to own and ride. Thanks you for the feedback - All OSSA owners will appreciate this information Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deonattard Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) I am thinking that maybe the batteries over-charge and fail as a result, there is no protection circuit for the batteries. There has to be some reason why Ossa has not released this product because so far it works almost too good to be true! I have a friend who is auto electrician, next time he is around I will get him to take a look at the system to see if any protection maybe required to prevent over-charging the batteries. I have set my unit up so I can easily swap back to the capacitor if required and I will build some spare battery packs for my own personal usage. I read the post above with the guy who has tapped into the light connector, that also seems like a good idea however I do not know if there is any benefit to retain the capacitor. I also don't understand why everything about this very basic battery pack is a huge secret. Allow me a few days to catch up on my work and I will post some directions on how to make and connect the battery with parts from the electronic store. Edited May 31, 2012 by DeonAttard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tobeee Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 I am thinking that maybe the batteries over-charge and fail as a result, there is no protection circuit for the batteries. There has to be some reason why Ossa has not released this product because so far it works almost too good to be true! I have a friend who is auto electrician, next time he is around I will get him to take a look at the system to see if any protection maybe required to prevent over-charging the batteries. I have set my unit up so I can easily swap back to the capacitor if required and I will build some spare battery packs for my own personal usage. I read the post above with the guy who has tapped into the light connector, that also seems like a good idea however I do not know if there is any benefit to retain the capacitor. I also don't understand why everything about this very basic battery pack is a huge secret. Allow me a few days to catch up on my work and I will post some directions on how to make and connect the battery with parts from the electronic store. Hi Deon This thread has been fascinating, and you seem to be getting results now, so that's great news! It is indeed odd that Ossa are taking so long to produce this incredible solution, especially considering its apparent simplicity of design. I have a feeling though, that any non-Ossa approved systems installed on a bike will invalidate all warranty, and so I would suggest people think carefully before they tell their own stories here about the kit they install. Having said that, I look forward to your shopping list with interest, as I have 'a friend' who is keen to make one of their own! Cheers, Toby Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deonattard Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 (edited) Hi Deon This thread has been fascinating, and you seem to be getting results now, so that's great news! It is indeed odd that Ossa are taking so long to produce this incredible solution, especially considering its apparent simplicity of design. I have a feeling though, that any non-Ossa approved systems installed on a bike will invalidate all warranty, and so I would suggest people think carefully before they tell their own stories here about the kit they install. Having said that, I look forward to your shopping list with interest, as I have 'a friend' who is keen to make one of their own! Cheers, Toby Tonight we made a strap from some alloy to bolt the battery pack into place behind the light, identical mount points to where the capacitor was. We also made a little bracket to mount the switch, most people would probably drill a hole in the number plate to mount the switch but I don't like putting holes in anything. My father started the bike, 1st easy kick cold, we turned it on and off a few times and he started it everytime first kick and I can tell you the smile on his face after having so much trouble starting the bikes was priceless. Can someone who understands electronics advise if we should be worried about over-charging the batteries? Dad says the bike should have a voltage regulator which he feels would prevent this. If it becomes an issue ie. the battery packs die or don't last, then we will run power through the headlight connector and we'll turn it off shortly after the bike is started with the capacitor back in the system. It does mean finding somewhere to mount the battery but I don't think I will ever use the bike without a battery after seeing how well it now starts. Its raining here at the moment but on the weekend I will do some riding and we'll see how it goes but I have not heard any rumours of the battery packs failing so maybe I am worried about nothing. Edited May 31, 2012 by DeonAttard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canada280i Posted May 31, 2012 Report Share Posted May 31, 2012 This has indeed been a very interesting thread to follow and I am glad that the solution seems to ultimately have been found. Kudos to Deon for seeing this through and not bailing out. Hope you enjoy the bike as much as we all know you will! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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