Classic Trials Club Question?

[old trials fanatic]

I would love some input guys and gals on this one. When you ride at a "Classic" trials clubs event does anybody have a problem with the machines around you? OK not very clear that one i will try to clarify.

For a while now we have been running trials for the following Pre70 British Bikes ( in reality British Twinshock but you gotta call it something), Twinshock ( no modified monoshocks) and Pre95 Air Cooled Monos. Now i've noticed that we have been loosing the Pre70 British Bike contingent only slowly but where we averaged 12 entries a couple of years ago we now average 8 and i am concerned obviously. Now at a recent trial albeit organised by another Club in our area, but i have heard similar from riders at our trials, i did get a feedback that some Pre65 Pre70 whatever British Bike riders dont seem to like "other" bikes being in the same event. Has anybody else come across this feeling? Now let me state categorically that we have not altered the sorts of sections we lay out to favour the Twinshocks or Pre95 Air Cooled Monos far from it. So why is this attitude evident amongst albeit a small contingent? Is it just in this area?

The main reason for asking is that like most Clubs, though not all Yorkshire Classic who get really good numbers being a prime example, things are tight as they are for all of us and i was thinking of introducing a class for over 50's on modern bikes initially on a non award basis. This was basically because i keep getting enquiries from people who are getting on a bit, i know i shouldnt say that nowadays but i'm getting on a bit too, who dont or cant cope with the maintenance issues that old bikes have and like the reliability of a modern bike but dont like "Modern trials" and just want to have a ride on their bike over something in their words "more sensible like wot we used to ride when i were a lad". At the moment for a multitude of reasons, mostly political ones, i cant let them enter even on a non award basis but also i worry about loosing any more riders if i did. Lets face it the Club needs the money and another 6 or so riders might just make the difference between making a loss or being able to put something in the Club funds for the end of season presentation etc. Then again not much point in gaining 6 riders and loosing 6 is there?

So have any of you any pertinent comments? Have you come across the same comments? Have you or your Club, preferably a "Classic" one, introduced similar classes and if so what are your experiences?

New season coming up and want to get it right for next year and not take two steps forward three steps back.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Old trials fanatic

[gasserguy]

You only need to look at Golden Valley and Bath Classic clubs results on the internet in the south west and see that they both have a class for over 50's on Mono bikes and from riding over 50 on a Gas Gas I've never had a problem.

One reason is not all older guys a strong enough to handle big old Pre 65's or have the time and money to look after them these days but enjoy riding with guys from the same generation.

Look how much a good pre 65 bike costs these days. Some are more than double a good second hand mono....

For God's sake,If it's going to stop a club folding with lack of entries then go for it and except the mono's as more will moan if your club folds !!!!!!!!

[monty_jon]

I think the main problem is money at the moment, that’s why I’m currently using a later type twinshock

I would love to use my british bike but I just can’t afford it!

Edited September 15, 2011 by Monty_Jon

[jon v8]

I have been running the trials section of Bath Classic for just over a year now,and I'm doing everything I can to encourage people to bring out their older bikes.We are deliberately making the sections wide with no tight turns.The thing is many people told me they were riding mono's as the sections were getting tighter/more difficult.I dont have a problem with older riders on mono's - many of them have been riding for donkey's years so who are we to exclude them ?

I have heard that a couple of other clubs in the SW have talked about raising the mono riders age to over 60.

Difficult really,the only saving grace at the moment is that we have no awards,so we have no real arguements over converted twinshocks or posh forks on Pre65 bikes etc.

I'd rather see the older bikes out,but you cant force people to ride them.I got loads of stick for not riding my Ariel at the Dartmoor 2 day last weekend,but its in a very poor state with shot wheel bearings and a cracked fork leg.

But I will be riding it on sunday at our charity trial,I try to practice what I preach,but its not always easy.

Saying you dont want to ride a trial because there might be mono's there is a bit daft,I have no interest in mono's,(Apart from the old aircooled ones - RTL's etc)but we all do the same thing,so why not just enjoy the trial that a few people have gone to a hell of alot of trouble to set out ?

[bisby]

when i started riding my ossa in the early 90s i rode in the falcon twinshock series for years.I enjoyed riding with the big british bikes but over time they started to stop entering then the acu opened it up to over 40s on modern bikes and that class now has taken over and i find the sparkle has gone for me.

i then started riding in the sammy miller series and again was riding with the big british bikes, but they are slowly disapering. i pointed this out to an acu official once and he said well thats progress, i find this very sad.

i enjoy riding the peak classic trials very much and love to see & hear the old bikes, i would still enter even if there was modern bikes allowed - they may even bring an observer with them!

i ride for pleasure and find older bikes a differant challange compared to bland modern machines. i like to do well in the results but i am not looking to receive an award at the end of the year.

steve.

[pierre66]

I ride my BSA at a classis club for pre-65/twinshocks, although it is predominantly 70`s-80`s twinshocks. I personally would not like to see adults riding mono shocks at this club, whatever the year of bike or rider. (Small children on small wheeled mono`s being the exception to the rules, even then, TY80`s seem to be the popular weapon of choice) Selfish? maybe. My first trials bike was an air cooled monoshock Gasser,(8 years ago ) I was told I couldn`t ride it here and that was ok, you have to draw the line at whats allowed somewhere. This club has been pre-65/twinshock for 10 years and I hope it stays the same for another 10. Thats my honest opinion, for what its worth.

Everyone seems happy enough with the rules as they are, even the older riders.

What does seem to make a difference to rider numbers is venues, some are popular and get a good turn out. Other venues aren`t so popular, no matter how you set the sections some riders just won`t ride there. You can`t just hit them over the head and drag them there can you? or could you????

If you allow monoshocks to enter would you get more riders or would some of the twinshock riders you have switch to mono`s, meaning less riders in each class?

[jimmyl]

I've ridden Bath classic trials on both an old Beamish and a std tlr 200 and along with my riding buddies have enjoyed every minute of it, in fact its what got us all into twin shock trials. I think if the sections are right then people should just get on and enjoy it.

Possibly the trouble with a lot of classic/twinshock classes is that a good bike is expensive to buy and probably the older bikes are also expensive to maintain.

Lots of older rider on a modern bike on sensible sections should not really put anybodies nose out of joint.

[rockaria]

This is purely a personal point of view OTF (and I know that I've not ridden the last few events) but I think you would get more entries by easing the severity of the sections. On an average year I probably ride in 75% modern trials and 25% classic, usually riding either 50/50 or hard route in modern. Perhaps it's just me, but I would usually expect to have a less demanding day (both mentally and physically) competing in a classic trial as opposed to modern. This has certainly not been the case in some of the last few Peak Classic Trials I've done! And that's riding an ACM so it must be a struggle on some of the older bikes! I suppose this is a pitfall of having dual routes and I think a lot of course plotters fall into this trap - because there is a 'hard route' and an 'easy route' we are usually faced with ten HARD sections with no chance of a 'breather'. Ok, you could argue if that's the case then I should ride the 50/50 route, but my point is that I'm still riding to a reasonable standard (some might disagree) so if it's hard work for me it must be quite daunting further down the field. Please don't think that I'm 'having a go' at you, far from it. I appreciate all you people out there who give their own free time just to set out a trial for me to ride in.

[westyfield]

Hi OTF, Slightly off topic but in the last few local Peak/Midland Classic trials I have entered it has not been the section severity, the venue or the class of bike that has prompted me to move on and give the next event a miss but the unmanned sections.

I know that the lack of observers at classic trials is a perennial problem but one which is essential to the enjoyment of riding. This is one reason why I often take up the task when not riding. I suspect it is not so severe at modern trials where the younger riders have their parents willing to help out.

Both Peak and Midland Classic have chosen to run their trials in two parts with everyone doing half the sections, taking a break, moving the observers around and then doing the other half. To me this is not enjoyable. It prevents a rider getting in to a rhythm, lots of queuing and short laps.

Derby Pathfinders will not even start their trials before all sections are manned and will keep the entire entry sat quietly in the assembly area until friends/parents/girlfriend are pressurized/embarrassed/threatened(lol) to take up the task..

No one knows the answer to encourage observing but maybe there is another alternative? One suggestion is that riders mark for a while, hand over the board and move on. This seems to work well but could be abused. Another is to set riders off in groups and let them be responsible for each other. Though in short closed circuit trials this could get confusing with riders out of sequence.

Maybe there are more suggestions out there..

[minislim]

having gone through the motions of modern riding and slowly converting to older machinery i feel the fun factor has gone out of the classic side of the sport.

i look back to 15 years ago when the acu classic series used to be bussling with pre 65 bikes and twinshocks and a handful of aircooled monos and that cseries was enjoyable even for a 15 year old as i was back then.

now these event are overun with over 40's and 50's on modern bikes and so the sections are set to these bikes and not the older ones. i cannot see why they dont limit over 40's and 50's to ride up to aircooled mono's? that would create more interest and bring down the severity of the sections.

now back to more club based trials, i think by opening up the classes more then clerk of the course has a harder challenge of catering for all. back when we ran our club trials we tried but the scope of the land and the unknown quality of riders played its part. in the end we did just the one route which was for all classes except expert.

the more you cater for more modern bikes the more you put off the older bikes. thats why the likes of yorkshire classic still command good turn outs because they dont cater for the few. and they are stricter on your more modern 2011 pre 65 bikes too.

[jon v8]

having gone through the motions of modern riding and slowly converting to older machinery i feel the fun factor has gone out of the classic side of the sport.

i look back to 15 years ago when the acu classic series used to be bussling with pre 65 bikes and twinshocks and a handful of aircooled monos and that cseries was enjoyable even for a 15 year old as i was back then.

now these event are overun with over 40's and 50's on modern bikes and so the sections are set to these bikes and not the older ones. i cannot see why they dont limit over 40's and 50's to ride up to aircooled mono's? that would create more interest and bring down the severity of the sections.

now back to more club based trials, i think by opening up the classes more then clerk of the course has a harder challenge of catering for all. back when we ran our club trials we tried but the scope of the land and the unknown quality of riders played its part. in the end we did just the one route which was for all classes except expert.

the more you cater for more modern bikes the more you put off the older bikes. thats why the likes of yorkshire classic still command good turn outs because they dont cater for the few. and they are stricter on your more modern 2011 pre 65 bikes too.

I have to disagree with your first comment about the fun going out of classic/twinshock trials.I have spent all afternoon with a chainsaw and slasher preparing for our trial - only interrupted by calls from people asking about the trial.

Not a problem as I can say to them that they can turn up and ride with no need for a licence,club membership etc.And no one is going to force them to attempt anything that they consider too much.We have had a great laugh chopping out this afternoon,which will be followed by plenty of mickey taking tommorrow when we mark out.Then even more teasing on sunday during and after the trial.Not taking it too seriously means everyone can come along and just enjoy themselves.

Isnt that what we are supposed to do ?

[old trials fanatic]

I have to disagree with your first comment about the fun going out of classic/twinshock trials.I have spent all afternoon with a chainsaw and slasher preparing for our trial - only interrupted by calls from people asking about the trial.

Not a problem as I can say to them that they can turn up and ride with no need for a licence,club membership etc.And no one is going to force them to attempt anything that they consider too much.We have had a great laugh chopping out this afternoon,which will be followed by plenty of mickey taking tommorrow when we mark out.Then even more teasing on sunday during and after the trial.Not taking it too seriously means everyone can come along and just enjoy themselves.

Isnt that what we are supposed to do ?

Well put John I'm doing the same tomorrow Just hope we get a few more entries to make it all worthwhile on Sunday.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Old trials fanatic

[old trials fanatic]

Just wanted to say thanks guys for all the input. Some stuff i can see some is a bit lost on me but i will say i am considering ALL the responses. So far i think perhaps over 50's on modern bikes is probably a step too far at the moment, dont personnally see why just know the Pre whatever brigade wont accept it, no point in gaining 6 over 50's and loosing 6 British Bikes is there?

Please keep the comments coming as they are very thought provoking and welcome.

[big_red_bike]

Just wanted to say thanks guys for all the input. Some stuff i can see some is a bit lost on me but i will say i am considering ALL the responses. So far i think perhaps over 50's on modern bikes is probably a step too far at the moment, dont personnally see why just know the Pre whatever brigade wont accept it, no point in gaining 6 over 50's and loosing 6 British Bikes is there?

Please keep the comments coming as they are very thought provoking and welcome.

Hi i think the loss of british bikes is down to clubs setting tighter and tighter sections,you only have to look at the types of bike ridden now even a b40 is a rare sight.If modern bikes are allowed people will drift over to them as they have to the twinshocks and air cooled monos .It is possible to set out hard challenging sections without them being so tight then they would be suitable for old bikes but still take marks.

[minislim]

think you may have got my comment slightly muddled up jon.

in regards to organising and running trials that bit still is fun. we used to have great fun in marking out a pretty good course that could be challenging for all capacities and yet there wouldnt be anything too difficult for a raw beginner to attempt. yet at the same time with a stratigically placed flag you could also catch the more experienced riders for a dab or too.

that bit is still fun.

im on about riders who seem to hang about, waiting for sections to get easier. riders who modify their bikes beyond actually being recognised as a classic bike and taking things far too seriously, these are what i would say are spoiling the fun of trials. hence why numbers are dwindling in some clubs.

some turn to modern bikes instead as these riders stuggle. but then the sections start to change in favour of the more modern machinery.

then the classic numbers dwindle.

like for instance yesterdays dales classic round of the northern british bike championship.

for a first attempt at this sort of type of event i applaude the dales club. it was a great ride around with a large amount of traditional sections to enjoy.

but it was spoilt by about five or six sections that your bike would have needed a pivot in the middle of the frame to get around.

i've returned home with my arms red raw from bashing against trees and a bad back from one major crash too.

now where is the fun in that?

Edited September 19, 2011 by minislim