minislim Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Right. its a problem thats effecting everyone in the sport. fuel companies seem to be upping the ethanol content in modern unleaded fuels. Problems arose firstly with just the classic bikes running fibreglass tanks. the ethanol leached out the resin which clogged up carbs and varnished pistons. but its now effecting modern bikes too piercing carb floats and knackering up fuel lines. its also effecting other motorsports too. i started off this epetition and now with it appearing in several publications the numbers signing up are rising. now we have 11,828 memebers on here. ok not all are uk residents. we should be able to boost this just from trials central memebers alone. please can you sign up to this and help sort this problem. the link is http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/15535 cheers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Haven't seen any of the problems that others seem to have . I'm not saying there may be problems but I think ALOT of problems, real or imagined ,are from something else. The main ones I hear about are drawing moisture, and oil seperation , I have a glass bottle that I filled with mixed fuel close to 2 years ago , there has been no moisture or seperation visible in 2 years of setting on the shelf. Maybe I'm speshul Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
minislim Posted November 4, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 i've had two carb floats that have filled with fuel. cannot see where its leaked in but its messed them up. one plastic tank that went brittle. numerous fuel lines that have gone hard. they always do but not as quick as in a week or so. two fibreglass petrol tanks that have leeched resin into the carb and engine and have rendered them un-usable. and the fuel line clips on my road bike snapped spilling petrol all over the bike whilest i was riding. poential fire hazard. all are connected to the upping of the ethanol content. god i am unlucky on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toothandnail Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 To be fair , I don't have anything older than 1992 (3 PWC's 92-97) other toys are 2001 -2007. My son is the head mechanic at a cycle shop , He hasn't seen much, if anything, that could be directally attributed to ethanol , most is lack of maintinance , not saying yours is , I'll have to ask about the fiberglass tanks , not sure if I've seen those , maybe I have and didn't know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldbanjo Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Haven't seen any of the problems that others seem to have . I'm not saying there may be problems but I think ALOT of problems, real or imagined ,are from something else. The main ones I hear about are drawing moisture, and oil seperation , I have a glass bottle that I filled with mixed fuel close to 2 years ago , there has been no moisture or seperation visible in 2 years of setting on the shelf. Maybe I'm speshul The fuel test you are doing in the glass bottle is not representative of real world conditions if the bottle sealed and stored inside your garage heated garage. Without being exposed to temperature swings and moisture the fuel does not deteriorate. I did a similar test and had several different brands of fuel and they all held up well (Avgas 100LL, Shell 96 race fuel, Torco 110, 87 Pump Gas, 92 Pump Gas). To be an accurate test - I believe the container needs to be vented like the fuel tanks are, and it needs to be subjected to temperature and humidity swings the way equipment is when it is stored in unheated garages and pole barns....or left outside. I personally have seen lots of damaged related to ethanol fuels. My Sherco tank is nylon and it swelled and became soft in only 4 months of using pump gas with ethanol - my current replacement tank is 2 years old and doing fine now that I make sure to use ethanol free fuel. I have repaired lots of mowers, chain saws and snow blowers that have had the fuel lines and/or carb diaphragms dissolved by the ethanol laced fuel. My neighbor had a Honda CRF450 that had the carb float needle corroded by the ethanol - ethanol in concentration will corrode aluminum. Prior to the introduction of ethanol fuel problems with old gas were resticted to gumming things up - now the ethanol related problems show up as corrosion of metal parts and dissolving rubber parts. My opinion is that ethanol fuel causes few problems in equipment that is used regularly. It causes problems in equipment that is used periodically and stored for extended periods. The ethanal fuel either absorbs moisture and causes corrosion problems - or the "gasoline" portion of the fuel evaporates and provides high concentrations of ethanol that dissolves rubber parts and corrodes metal parts. It is also during these extended periods that phase seperation seems to occur.....some oils do no mix with ethanol and can seperate when the gasoline portion has evaporated and the ethanol percentage is increased (or water is absorbed). I have found a source of ethanol free 91 octane gasoline and it works great in all my mowers and motorcycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chewy Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 For those of us who would rather give it a wide berth how does one know if pump fuel is ethanol free? or is it all thesame in this respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldbanjo Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 (edited) For those of us who would rather give it a wide berth how does one know if pump fuel is ethanol free? or is it all thesame in this respect. The only sure way I know is to test the fuel. Take a plastic bottle (soda bottles are fine) and fill it about 1/3rd with water - then carefully mark the water level on the bottle with a marker or tape. Then fill the rest of the bottle up with the fuel you want to test, put on the cap and shake. In a few seconds the fuel will rise to the top and the water back to the bottom. If the fuel has ethanol in it the level of the water will have risen as a result of the ethanol being absorbed into the water.....the point where the water and fuel meet could be cloudy and/or bumpy. If there is no ethanol in the fuel the water level will be exactly where it was before you added the fuel and shook......and generally the layer between the fuel and water is very distinct and smooth. I have only been able to find ethanol free fuel by searching on the internet - then testing as several of the sources on the internet no longer carried ethanol free fuel. Some bulk distributers deliever ethanol free fuel to farmers as the ethanol does not keep well in the above ground tanks that most farmers use and the ethanol does not run or keep well in older farm equipment. You may also be able to find ethanol free pump gas at marinas or gas stations that are near race tracks. Airports have Avgas 100LL and it keeps forever - but it runs richer than regular fuel and you may have to rejet to get it to run properly. Edited November 4, 2011 by 1oldbanjo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo349 Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 The only sure way I know is to test the fuel. Take a plastic bottle (soda bottles are fine) and fill it about 1/3rd with water - then carefully mark the water level on the bottle with a marker or tape. Then fill the rest of the bottle up with the fuel you want to test, put on the cap and shake. In a few seconds the fuel will rise to the top and the water back to the bottom. If the fuel has ethanol in it the level of the water will have risen as a result of the ethanol being absorbed into the water.....the point where the water and fuel meet could be cloudy and/or bumpy. If there is no ethanol in the fuel the water level will be exactly where it was before you added the fuel and shook......and generally the layer between the fuel and water is very distinct and smooth. I have only been able to find ethanol free fuel by searching on the internet - then testing as several of the sources on the internet no longer carried ethanol free fuel. Some bulk distributers deliever ethanol free fuel to farmers as the ethanol does not keep well in the above ground tanks that most farmers use and the ethanol does not run or keep well in older farm equipment. You may also be able to find ethanol free pump gas at marinas or gas stations that are near race tracks. Airports have Avgas 100LL and it keeps forever - but it runs richer than regular fuel and you may have to rejet to get it to run properly. An Idea Hows about doing the checks as described above and if ethanol is present do it again on a large scale and draw off the neat petrol off the top of the water/ethanol mix in the bottom of the container. Makes the fuel expensive but its better than a trashed tank/engine. just a idea so please dont shoot me down!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldbanjo Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 An Idea Hows about doing the checks as described above and if ethanol is present do it again on a large scale and draw off the neat petrol off the top of the water/ethanol mix in the bottom of the container. Makes the fuel expensive but its better than a trashed tank/engine. just a idea so please dont shoot me down!!!!!! This has been discussed at length on a chainsaw website. The consensus is that the gasoline can also aborb some water - and it will be saturated with as much water is it can hold. Therefore is could also cause problems related to water and corrosion. The only way to properly seperate them would be to have a distilling process......which would be dangerous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo349 Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 This has been discussed at length on a chainsaw website. The consensus is that the gasoline can also aborb some water - and it will be saturated with as much water is it can hold. Therefore is could also cause problems related to water and corrosion. The only way to properly seperate them would be to have a distilling process......which would be dangerous. Fair enough!! Chainsaw forum.......Im missing out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1oldbanjo Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 Chainsaw forum.......Im missing out.... You may not be missing much. We talk about a lot of the same stuff.....best oil, best fuel mix ratio, best brand, best spark plugs! If you need to know.....www.arboristsite.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gasgas249uk Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 I know its a pain , but draining tanks and carbs after each ride would stop the symptoms. It's not to much bother Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimbo349 Posted November 4, 2011 Report Share Posted November 4, 2011 I know its a pain , but draining tanks and carbs after each ride would stop the symptoms. It's not to much bother I drain my bikes anyway the mh has a poliprop tank and the 200 ally but the fuel keeps better in a 10 litre gerry can IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smelling123 Posted November 5, 2011 Report Share Posted November 5, 2011 In the UK to the best of my knowledge the only pump fuel that is confirmed by the manufacturer/supplier to definitely NOT contain ethanol is Texacos 'High Octane' fuel. Most other UK pump fuel contains ethanol and loads of my mates with twinshocks have had problems with poor starting (when the fuel is only a few weeks old), fibreglass damage, damage to fuel tap rubbers and filters etc, etc..nasty stuff. The Texaco seems fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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