hrc1 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 "Two rule changes were unanimously approved at the meeting to take effect from 1st Jan 2012 and apply to all South East Centre Championship Trials. All trials are to be set out to be run under TSR22B Non-Stop and the combine will identify a method of determining a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) Depends, they can't change the rules on a "STOP" that's defined under TSR22B. As well do ALL the clubs members agree? There is a case for a local club up here that wanted to go TSR22A but found that a lot of non-riding members turned up to vote it out... The Clubs are pretty evenly split up here 7 run TSR22A, 5 run TSR22B with Ilkley trials running to TSR22B. ALl clubs barring Huddersfield Falcons run the rules for their Centres as per the Club rules. Works pretty well as if you don't like the rules you don't turn up!!! Edited November 7, 2011 by Telecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smalley250 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 I hate non stop as in my humble opinion its never fairly done. Ie i make a stop and its points, however Mr or Mrs top rider seemingly gets away with it. Ive also had comments from the observer stating "ill allow a stop up to about three seconds" mmm how well is that policed. I also think its harder for novice riders as they often need to foot and settle things down, yet they have the extra pressure of the stop rule in sections often not reasonable for non stop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dadof2 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 "(i) The machine ceases to move in a forward direction." The rule is quite clear, the problem comes with riders expectations. I as an occasuional observer have been pressured by riders in an attempt to give a 3 or better when it was definitely a five. What is worse (IMHO) is when mature riders attempt to pressurise young (schoolage)inexperienced observers into giving them a better mark than earned. Quite a lot of riders seem to think that a momentary slip back, or dragging the bike sideways with a foot down still count as forwards motion and argue with observers. I always give the benefit of the doubt particulary to riders who perhaps do halt for an intant but keep both feet up. A lenient application of the no stop rule is bad for the sport because it leads to a variety of marking and as scores will be lower will result in sections being stiffened for future events, making them even more difficult, possibly hazardous. What is better - a rideable trial with observers and the odd mark you are not happy with or - harder trials with no or few observers where you can mark yourelves and cheat as much as you like. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) "What is better - a rideable trial with observers and the odd mark you are not happy with or - harder trials with no or few observers where you can mark yourelves and cheat as much as you like. Cheers" Unfortunately I have observed at both TSR22A and B Trials that fall into both categories. Hence a change of rules makes no odds. As I see it if you want the entries set an "easy" trial. Then you get over 100 entries. Set a "Hard" trial or even one that takes a few marks and basically the riders stay away. There seems to be a set of riders who want "Novice/Beginners" Trials at all levels and basically many clubs need the riders to turn up. They do not do themselves any favours as they never get any better and grumble at observers. Edited November 7, 2011 by Telecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Rules do not make hard trials c o c do. I think no stop in southern centres during the wet winter months can lead to "flexible" observing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
t-shock 250 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 In my experience, problems arise when a course is set out too tight to ride without having to move front/rear wheels sideways to make the turn. Quite often (as said above) an observer will allow a momentary stop but this favours the better riders as they are more capable of giving the perception that they are keeping the bike moving (by using a more fluid technique of hopping if you get my drift) At first, i was in favour of no-stop, but recently i'm not so sure as stopping seems to be allowed most of the time and sections are still laid out too tight to be ridden conventionally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatabeta Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Can I ask a potenially dumb question re: non stop? Is there a defined a 'stop whilst balanced equals X' rule?? Reason for asking is that I thought a 'stop whilst balanced = 1 point' However I have had the misfortune of riding further north and had 'a stop whilst balanced = 5' Now this could have been 'my southern accent + grumpy and wet old northern observer + stop whilst balanced = 5' I dont mind riding no stop trials IF a 'stop = 1 point' but if a 'stop = 5' I'd hate it. Is this defined anywhere in the rules or is this again up to the organising club?? What seems to be needed is either at ACU, local centre or organising club level a defined set of rules to be given to the observers, communicated to the riders before event start and be made available for riders to see at each trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jordi Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Probably the best decision the SE Centre has made, the time some riders were spending in sections was bordering on the ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dabtastic Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Can I ask a potenially dumb question re: non stop? Is there a defined a 'stop whilst balanced equals X' rule?? Reason for asking is that I thought a 'stop whilst balanced = 1 point' However I have had the misfortune of riding further north and had 'a stop whilst balanced = 5' Non-stop = TSR22b - "A failure is considered to have occurred if; i) the machine ceases to move in a forward direction". Stop when balanced = 5 You seem to be thinking of the old "Stop for a 1" rule that is now obsolete. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beatabeta Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Non-stop = TSR22b - "A failure is considered to have occurred if; i) the machine ceases to move in a forward direction". Stop when balanced = 5 You seem to be thinking of the old "Stop for a 1" rule that is now obsolete. Waaaaaay too harsh IMO, I'd take a '1' for stopping but if trials go '5' for stopping that'd be the end for me and probably a lot of younger riders I know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telecat Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 (edited) No-Stop is exactly what it says, balanced or not. Some confusion was down to how many interpreted the "old" TSR22A where a Balanced stop got a one and a stopped foot down was given a five, (or not), and also the "Stop" rules seemed to "blur" into the No-Stop for a few observers. Again it is down to the CofC to put down the course that his riders want. One other thing. Ride the course you CAN ride. Yes if you start winning that regularly then move up. Too many riders whinge about courses when they are not good enough to ride the course they are on. Edited November 7, 2011 by Telecat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
02-apr Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Waaaaaay too harsh IMO, I'd take a '1' for stopping but if trials go '5' for stopping that'd be the end for me and probably a lot of younger riders I know. It's not a case of going that way - the rule has existed for many decades. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickwren Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 Wake up and smell the coffee guys, no stop is not some mythical land of milk and honey, its a big nasty place where stoping is 5,or should be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted November 7, 2011 Report Share Posted November 7, 2011 For a year or two we had the ridiculous system where- a feet-up stop was a one one foot-down stop was a two two feet down stop was a three one dab was a one two dabs was a two three dabs was a three bounce sideways whilst moving was a clean bounce sideways whilst stationary was a five go backwards feet up or down was a five Try explaining that mess to a 'first time' observer five minutes before the start of a trial! In all the time I rode under this system, I was never given a two for a stationary dab. No wonder the ACU decided to go back to either stopping allowed or full non stop. Only my opinion but I believe that all trials should be non stop, (although I prefer to ride stopping allowed) we would quickly learn to accept the fact that a stop is a five and would ride accordingly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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