baldilocks Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 2 reasons why trials is attracting less riders. simple! Cost of bikes and land to practise on. Her in Australia we have the stop rule and use the 90 second rule. Those in the top grades do stop as the sections require it, there is no stuffin around as after 90seconds they get a five, observers have a stop watch. Those not at the top level who ride the easier sections often dont stop, finish in under a minute. To make it easier for observers with the going back rule that is easy. You CAN go back, if you foot when going back a one, twice a two, make the footing rule the same for when moving forward and back. that way it is easier for observers. No people wont take longer, well not more than 90 seconds as they get a 5! Just my ideas we struggle to get 10 observers for a local trial so we are not going to get 20. If its a UK nartional with 40 sections your going to need 80 observers, thats just too many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 we struggle to get 10 observers for a local trial so we are not going to get 20. If its a UK nartional with 40 sections your going to need 80 observers, thats just too many. Same. We do however get 80 observer/punchers for the Colmore Cup, but this relies on a single lap and some doing an early section then a late one which makes for a long day out for those willing to help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baldilocks Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 so if the colmore timed every section and had punch cards you would need 120 observers ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tricky dicky Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 tricky dicky has sent me the lottery numbers for tonight whoo hoo ! Haha I wish I could predict them! I did predict this was coming though as I already knew! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andat Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 And that is symptomatic of the thinking that doesn't understand the original concept of trials. When you are losing balance under no-stop you need a dab to get yourself sorted out and back on line, otherwise you either fall off or go out of the section unless it is very wide and you have room to recover whilst still feet up and going forwards. In other words you are penalised a mark or more for losing control of the bike, which is what you have done if only for a split second. Stopping to regain your balance takes away the necessity to plan your line and stick to it to attain a feet up ride. Under stop allowed, you're failing as you stop to regain balance you have lost - the difference is the rules allow you to fail unpenalised. Absolutely spot on.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapshot 3 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Brilliant move by the ACU and a great step forward. We cannot continue down the road the sport has gone in the past few years, otherwise there will be bugger all left. The two most important trials on the calendar are No Stop, SSDT and the Scott they work and they work well. No one can say hat those trials are badly laid out, no one can say those are bad trials and thats where BTC is heading. WTC is a circus and BTC was heading the same way, a championship cannot sustain itself long term with only a few riders, this was inevitable. These arguments are old hat, I remember the same arguments when Stop came in unfortunately our sport, with a few exceptions, has rapidly gone downhill since. Great move, I'm thouroughly looking forward to see how the future of trials develops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigel dabster Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 Brilliant move by the ACU and a great step forward. We cannot continue down the road the sport has gone in the past few years, otherwise there will be bugger all left. The two most important trials on the calendar are No Stop, SSDT and the Scott they work and they work well. No one can say hat those trials are badly laid out, no one can say those are bad trials and thats where BTC is heading. WTC is a circus and BTC was heading the same way, a championship cannot sustain itself long term with only a few riders, this was inevitable. These arguments are old hat, I remember the same arguments when Stop came in unfortunately our sport, with a few exceptions, has rapidly gone downhill since. Great move, I'm thouroughly looking forward to see how the future of trials develops. it is only a brilliant move if it works. If the wtc is no stop , fine if its not then the top lads wont support it. This year we had Jack challoner in italy and dougie not competing yet they both were in the tdn team? Perhaps alongside the rule changes the tdn team should be the top 4 btc? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 If the wtc is no stop , fine if its not then the top lads wont support it. Doesnt appear that many are supporting it now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woody Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 it is only a brilliant move if it works. If the wtc is no stop , fine if its not then the top lads wont support it. This year we had Jack challoner in italy and dougie not competing yet they both were in the tdn team? Perhaps alongside the rule changes the tdn team should be the top 4 btc? But, if they don't support it so what, there will be others that will so you will still have a BTC and maybe better supported than it is now. If 3 or 4 of the best riders choose to ride elsewhere then 'so be it' is the attitude that I believe would prevail. Let's be honest, I don't think it is wide of the mark to say that say 70 - 80% of the UK's trials riders wouldn't give a toss if the WTC folded tomorrow. It won't stop the sport carrying on every weekend for club riders. Neither will it if the top 3 or 4 bugger off to Spain to ride so they can still contest the WTC. I really believe that most riders really won't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete_scorpa3 Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 But, if they don't support it so what, there will be others that will so you will still have a BTC and maybe better supported than it is now. If 3 or 4 of the best riders choose to ride elsewhere then 'so be it' is the attitude that I believe would prevail. Let's be honest, I don't think it is wide of the mark to say that say 70 - 80% of the UK's trials riders wouldn't give a toss if the WTC folded tomorrow. It won't stop the sport carrying on every weekend for club riders. Neither will it if the top 3 or 4 bugger off to Spain to ride so they can still contest the WTC. I really believe that most riders really won't care. Here here. WTC is amazing to watch but apart from the bikes has nothing in common with the sport we ride. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old trials fanatic Posted November 25, 2011 Report Share Posted November 25, 2011 But, if they don't support it so what, there will be others that will so you will still have a BTC and maybe better supported than it is now. If 3 or 4 of the best riders choose to ride elsewhere then 'so be it' is the attitude that I believe would prevail. Let's be honest, I don't think it is wide of the mark to say that say 70 - 80% of the UK's trials riders wouldn't give a toss if the WTC folded tomorrow. It won't stop the sport carrying on every weekend for club riders. Neither will it if the top 3 or 4 bugger off to Spain to ride so they can still contest the WTC. I really believe that most riders really won't care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camberman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Oh dear, been here before. No stop ok in theory but not in practice, section plotters have to layout sections to suit no stop ridding which they rarely do. Modern bikes are made to be ridden of the clutch once you have disengaged clutch practicaly you have stopped forward motion. It actually makes the observers job more diffcult (how hard is it to find observers)? Imagine a straight forward section up a stream with a slippy waterfall exit Mr novice tries it with a flat out aggressive style good effort but a five Mr smooth expert rides steadily up stream pauses ever so brifily fires up waterfall brilliant ride only ridder to get up observer says no it was a five can you imagine what happend next (true story. Not the way forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camberman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Totally agree Woody I see little point in a super hard championship route at BTC which is supposed to be grooming riders for a WTC thats dead on its feet. I am tired of the arguement that its ok because the youth class at WTC or Expert B prop up the entry numbers. Its not ok that nobody has broken into the top 5 for how long and that generally new riders cant make the grade on the champ route. No disrespect to any of them but if they are losing more than 100 marks in 30 sections they arent really going to win anytime soon, thats more than 3 marks per section for those of you who failed GCSE maths . Good on the ACU for trying somthing, if it doesnt work the rest of us can still ride every sunday in our own events. If the WTC dies in current form does it really matter to me or you ? It should matter to all concerned ! What kind of sport would you have without a World Championship to aspire to ? An Amatuer sport is all you would have left ! What manufacturer would want to base their product sales or advertising on an orphaned Amatuer sport without a legitimate World Championship Series ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laser1 Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 Bloody hell its hard enough finding observers, now I gotta find time keepers? If your observers cant tell time, how in "bloody hell" will they be able to deal with all the extra difficulty of no stop rules and logistics. Actually, you don't even need to tell time - you just press a button and listen for the buzzer. IMHO, I dont see this panning out in the long run. For one thing, the recent trend for most sports in general has been to get more extreme - not less. Just look at how popular the last man standing Enduros have become. I think no stop works with events like the SSDT as they are brutal to just finish and fit the extreme sense of accomplishment bill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camberman Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 The problem is simple. I haven't seen a "No-Stop" Trial these days that either is so easy it barely takes a mark or so hard it leaves us observers open to abuse when we do award a five for stopping!!!! Perhaps the problem is from your end of the argument. Every problem at a Trial is Because it's not NO-STOP. Every low entry is because it's not NO-STOP. Low bike sales??? If we went NO-STOP.... etc etc etc. It's like water torture. Every good Trial is No-Stop. Every Bad Trial is Stop. Sorry it does not work that way. But of course most of the Chorus seems to be from a bygone age and they believe if they sing from the same OLD song book somebody will listen. Make a Trial EASY and you'll get riders no matter what the rules. Don't clash with another club and you'll get riders. Only when you wonder why only 6-10 riders turn up for BTC and only about the same can win S3 rounds don't blame the rules Sounds like good sense to me ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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