No stop

[camberman]

All true. Yes, the other brands works bikes are closer to production and yes the 4RT is not perfect and had a kickstart recall. No argument here. I see nothing wrong with "works" bikes.

What I am ranting about is the endless anti-Montesa carping that comes from the Gas Gas camp here in the US. It starts at the top and goes down. Its ugly and negative.

As for understanding this debate ....How many No Stop trials have you ridden? Have you ridden the SSDT? There is much value in what these experienced men have said here.

There is a similar argument in Motocross VS Supercross. Many riders and fans prefer outdoor, grass roots, natural MX and some like Supercross. Am I a Flintstone because I want to see the Ryans duke it out on a natural track like Unadilla? No that is the "core" of the sport and moto people have embraced the roots of their sport.

OK Sir. I am glad we can agree about the works bike stuff and I can see your point about moto vs supercross and the "roots" of the sport but I will try to reply more in order with your reply.

It wasn,t so much the idea of a recall with the kickstart on my 4RT as it was the fact that the center crankcase was where the failure occured. The recall involved changing out the bolt for the stopper plate with one of a higher grade. The end result was that the case broke where the plate attached.

I believe the cam timing was changed the next year to close the exaust valves a bit sooner, thus eliminating the kickback that caused the failure. Probably just a first year issue as we have all seen with many new models of differing brands.

I have not previously noticed the "anti-Montesa carping" from anyone here in the GG, or any other, camp for that matter. Perhaps that is why I was a bit reactive over your statement about the US - I love my country, and my bikes, including all my Montesas. I currently have a 348 Rathmell Replica, along with a very nice Ulf Karlson Replica. Previous Cota's I have enjoyed owning include a 314,315 and the 4RT. All great bikes! I would consider another depending on what they build in the future.

I have probably ridden about 75 to 100 no -stop Trials on various bikes starting in the early 70's. TY's,SherpaT's,and Cotton to name a few. I could never pretend to have had the honor of competing in the Scottish although I have ridden a couple of Trials with a timed format that I remember being referred to as a "Scott or "Scottish " format. I have been fortunate with some great results over the years in local regional and national competitions and do feel qualified to speak with more than just a bit of experiance. I enjoyed riding no-stop in its time but not as much as I enjoy the creativity of stop- allowed Trials as ridden in the modern era. I am now 52 but can stop,hop, and move the bike, when required, because I worked,and continue to work,at keeping up with the sport over the years. I still use momentum and enjoy a smooth ride through when and where it can still work.

I can see your correlation with mx and sx very well as I have ridden a few hundred moto's over the years(106motos without a dnf in 2002 alone). The difference that stands out to me most is that both sports,Supercross and Motocross co-exist without one trying to cancel out the other. Why do the No-Stop advocates feel the need to put an end to Stop-Allowed ? The outdoor tracks have all now been designed to emulate the obstacles from indoors. Double,triple,and quad jumps,tabletops, step ups and step downs all came outdoors and many older riders had to learn to adapt and find their own pace on these new tracks. Seems similar to the sections in Trials where the techniques and obstacles from the indoor events were brought to the outdoors as well wouldn't you say? So now a group of older riders over there want to change the rules of modern Trials just because they either can't,or won't adapt to these types of obstacles.Should Ryan Dungey or any other top pro have to ride a track with no Larocco's Leap or not hit 3-foot whoop section pinned in third gear just because some older riders,myself included, are no longer ready for such speed? Instead the vets still ride the same tracks on amatuer days - just 2 or 3 gears slower than the pros. What would happen if we went back to old style scrambles tracks with no doubles etc.. just to help the old guys go faster? That would seem similar to what no-stop would want do to Trials - Take out the bravado so some older guys can re-live their glory days and punish those with the skills and determination to ride at the top of their chosen sport ? In Trials we must each choose a line that fits our own level of ability. So instead of going slower as in a motox, in Trials we might have to drop a class to find the approriate line. You don't have to change the rules, or the course ,just because of the want to relive our past. If no-stop is valid and people want to recognize and appreciate "the roots of the sport" that is great, but why kill an existing sport to achieve this? Stop allowed is the established format for modern Trials and the modern World Trials Championship so it seems that a no-stop series needs to be established of its Own merit and not at the expense of another well established sport.

Last of all ,for now, my apologies for the "moon man" on my previous post. Seems my nationalistic pride was a bit ruffled at the time from your "jackholes" comment related to the US. I appreciate the chance to share opinions here and wish to do so as a gentlemen. I say , let's all stop arguing for a bit and GO RIDING !!!

Edited December 3, 2011 by camberman

[steve fracy]

I have been reading every page of this thread from the beginning. Interesting stuff for sure. I am at a bit of a loss why there are any comments about works bikes, and why anyone is getting upset about comments made about the different brands of bike though.

A few small comments. First, it has been said that a couple other countries other than UK are changing to no stop. Does anyone know if those countries are in contact with the FIM and lobbying to have the rules changed at the World level?? Spain is now changing back from the Open free, which is understandable, after reading about some of the problems that occurred this year with that format. It is apparent to me again that there is much unrest with things in almost every country that has riders in the WTC. Where there is smoke, there is fire! The UK is simply trying to react to the same problem, but with a different approach. Its not going back to the stone age here guys. I have ridden with both rules, and to be honest, as much as most of my time riding has been stop allowed, I really could not be bothered either way. For those of you who think that riding no stop is easy, or boring, or any of that, then tell me if you have ridden the Scottish. We all know that there was a time not long ago when the SSDT did not have a full entry. From the time this event went no stop, it has been over subscribed ever since. Is it easy? dont think so. Is it fun and challenging, and people from all over the world come to ride it? Yes. I am sure that this event is one example for whoever has come to make this decision.

Camberman, would love to know who you are as I feel you have ridden in the same era as me and we probably know each other. I spent an entire summer living in Vermont with the Commos riding all the NETA series.

Some things are very apparent to me. The WTC is failing drastically and the number of riders in the top class is slowly getting smaller. Not good for anyone involved, especially the manufacturers. Each country is recognizing this and thats why rules are changing, everyone looking to find the right answer. I would think the the Federations from each country and the FIM should be and are, probably working together to see what can be done.

Everyone who is passionate about this topic one way or the other should just take a deep breath for a minute. The bottom line is to enjoy riding trials, and figure out how to promote this sport and make it better. Lets just see how this all plays out and work together.

Steve

[pete_scorpa3]

I have been reading every page of this thread from the beginning. Interesting stuff for sure. I am at a bit of a loss why there are any comments about works bikes, and why anyone is getting upset about comments made about the different brands of bike though.

A few small comments. First, it has been said that a couple other countries other than UK are changing to no stop. Does anyone know if those countries are in contact with the FIM and lobbying to have the rules changed at the World level?? Spain is now changing back from the Open free, which is understandable, after reading about some of the problems that occurred this year with that format. It is apparent to me again that there is much unrest with things in almost every country that has riders in the WTC. Where there is smoke, there is fire! The UK is simply trying to react to the same problem, but with a different approach. Its not going back to the stone age here guys. I have ridden with both rules, and to be honest, as much as most of my time riding has been stop allowed, I really could not be bothered either way. For those of you who think that riding no stop is easy, or boring, or any of that, then tell me if you have ridden the Scottish. We all know that there was a time not long ago when the SSDT did not have a full entry. From the time this event went no stop, it has been over subscribed ever since. Is it easy? dont think so. Is it fun and challenging, and people from all over the world come to ride it? Yes. I am sure that this event is one example for whoever has come to make this decision.

Camberman, would love to know who you are as I feel you have ridden in the same era as me and we probably know each other. I spent an entire summer living in Vermont with the Commos riding all the NETA series.

Some things are very apparent to me. The WTC is failing drastically and the number of riders in the top class is slowly getting smaller. Not good for anyone involved, especially the manufacturers. Each country is recognizing this and thats why rules are changing, everyone looking to find the right answer. I would think the the Federations from each country and the FIM should be and are, probably working together to see what can be done.

Everyone who is passionate about this topic one way or the other should just take a deep breath for a minute. The bottom line is to enjoy riding trials, and figure out how to promote this sport and make it better. Lets just see how this all plays out and work together.

Steve

Well said Steve.

[baldilocks]

I may have mentioned Montesa many pages ago.

Just to clarify the initial point I was making was the WTC is no longer influencing sales and if its not, from the manufacturers point of view, why incur the expense ?

The BTC has had rules and sections similar to the WTC since 2005 at the moment the objection to no stop seems to be that UK riders will not be able to compete at WTC level because they are riding different rules at BTC from next year. As much as I admire our top British riders I dont think going no stop will make a british world round winner in 2012 any less likely. Its not that long ago one of our top riders rode a world round and fived every single section. Under a no stop BTC how much worse would that rider of done ? Not getting at the rider in question, he is a fantastic rider but he didnt look like one that day.

I'm not sure what rules our well meaning contributors from the states run but who was the last American WTC round winner in the top class, Bernie ? So again if the USA went no stop how much more unlikely is an american world round win in 2012 ? It doesnt matter what rules you run guys the WTC is too hard and this prevents even a resonable number of entries.

We have had references to various other sports and the organisers of these sports not seeking to limit the skills of those at the top of the sport. Tennis doesnt need to limit Nadal, FIFA dont need to limit Messi because in both cases the organisers are not seeing a shortage of entries. If there were six entries for Wimbledon or the World Cup then something would be changed.

Others think they wont be able to ride stop permitted in local trials. You still can but the issue even at centre level now is that the top course attracts by far the fewest entries. So for all the valid arguements, complaints and in some cases ranting rubbish (dont refer to the ACU in those terms again please) I'd like to go back to the problem as it stands.

Not enough people want to ride the current WTC/BTC/Hard Course. Happy to listen to any other ideas on fixing this. I do realise that our current top two may not ride next year. The views we need are from the people the change in rules is aiming to attract to the championship course, does it make them any more likely to compete ?

For the last 16 years at BTC level the Champ route has catered for the very best but fewer and fewer people seem to want to play the game. Bear in mind in a recent BTC round a supported rider lost 153 marks in 36 sections, thats an average of 4.25 marks per section. Is he a better rider for this experience ? Did the man and his dog spectating enjoy watching this performance ? Will this rider even enter a World Round on the champ route next year ? The 4th placed finisher lost 127, an average of 3.5marks per section. Again I mean no disrespect to the riders but they are not going to step up to a higher level of severity are they ?

No stop is being tried in an attempt to reduce the gulf in the abilities of riders, please lets just try it. What have we really got to lose ?

[woody]

Well, to me, This is what you are blabering about when the NO STOP zealots refuse to learn to hop and or the other techniques, but want the sections redone to suit you and your antiquated riding style.

This is total crap. For a start, how many people do you think have the time to spend endless hours practising the skills it takes to ride at our BTC level. 95% of the trials riding community have jobs, families, no free time and nowhere to practise. Practising hopping around the back yard for 10 minutes every night on flat concrete does not prepare you for being perched 8' high in the air on the points of two rocks, nothing between the bike, a requirement to move the wheels within parameters of millimetres and the ability to launch it to a similar landing platform a coule of bike legths away. There is nowhere to dab and if you do you'll fall.

The sections are ridiculously hard and beyond the reach of 99.5% of the youngsters it is aimed at. The riders you are talking about don't ride BTC and never will so your point of dragging trials back to the dark ages is not valid. It isn't a championship for ZEALOTS. The Zealots, as you refer to them, are totally unaffected by what happens with the BTC. There is nothing wrong with you having an opinion but when you have no first hand experience of a situation then you have no facts to base your comments on - hence you're missing the point.

The no-stop rule is for BTC, not UK wide ruling, clubs have the choice, stop or no stop. The fact of the moment is the BTC only has 3 or 4 riders who can properly tackle the sections, then another 4 or 5 who have the ability required to attempt them but they'll never improve. They are still very talented and skilfull riders, just missing that last bit. They have two supporting classes which are intended as stepping stones so the total entry at an event is 50.

My view is that if the riders and event organisers were happy to continue with this format and course plotters were happy seeing only 6 - 8 riders on the main championship course then let it continue as it was. Younger riders could see what level they had to reach to ride the full BTC course and could decide whether to remain in the support classes or have a go at it. The problem, is that top get that good takes continuous practise and support from others. Gone are the days you could go out practising on your own. So if you have to work for a living and aren't a fully supported rider when you reach school leaving age, you have little chance.

If you and Camberman think having the ability to hop around a bit is a sufficient skill set to work with as preparation for a BTC event, you really have no idea what those riders face. You need natural ability to balance and bags of it. Balance is something you have or don't, you can't learn it.

[tricky dicky]

Well said again Woody.

From what I can see everybody is moaning about the rule change and so far from what I can see apart from myself it doesn't affect anybody else posting comments as nobody else rides the BTC.

The topic seemed to have strayed onto works bikes which is little bearing on the rules. The top riders will still be top riders no matter what. Not many people think because Toni is world champ on a mont that they will go out and buy a mont.

The issue I see with the BTC is with the proposed format for next year. 2 routes is fine but as for no minders, I partly don't agree. I have been asked if I am going to move onto the championship route now it is no stop. My answer is honestly that I'm not sure as the gulf between what I'm happy about attempting without a catcher is somewhat different to what Dibs, Browny, Wiggy etc will have a go at.

I don't see a problem with having a catcher as that doesn't hurt anybody.

The other issue I see is that the only real way the format suggested can work is on a single lap course. The venues that we go to for the BTC would definitely struggle to lay out a no stop trial with no catchers allowed that wouldn't end up with 3 or 4 people clean at the end of the day. Personally I think that catchers should be allowed and keep the format to 2 classes then at least the expert A riders could have a good go at the championship route.

[old trials fanatic]

This is total crap. For a start, how many people do you think have the time to spend endless hours practising the skills it takes to ride at our BTC level. 95% of the trials riding community have jobs, families, no free time and nowhere to practise. Practising hopping around the back yard for 10 minutes every night on flat concrete does not prepare you for being perched 8' high in the air on the points of two rocks, nothing between the bike, a requirement to move the wheels within parameters of millimetres and the ability to launch it to a similar landing platform a coule of bike legths away. There is nowhere to dab and if you do you'll fall.

The sections are ridiculously hard and beyond the reach of 99.5% of the youngsters it is aimed at. The riders you are talking about don't ride BTC and never will so your point of dragging trials back to the dark ages is not valid. It isn't a championship for ZEALOTS. The Zealots, as you refer to them, are totally unaffected by what happens with the BTC. There is nothing wrong with you having an opinion but when you have no first hand experience of a situation then you have no facts to base your comments on - hence you're missing the point.

The no-stop rule is for BTC, not UK wide ruling, clubs have the choice, stop or no stop. The fact of the moment is the BTC only has 3 or 4 riders who can properly tackle the sections, then another 4 or 5 who have the ability required to attempt them but they'll never improve. They are still very talented and skilfull riders, just missing that last bit. They have two supporting classes which are intended as stepping stones so the total entry at an event is 50.

My view is that if the riders and event organisers were happy to continue with this format and course plotters were happy seeing only 6 - 8 riders on the main championship course then let it continue as it was. Younger riders could see what level they had to reach to ride the full BTC course and could decide whether to remain in the support classes or have a go at it. The problem, is that top get that good takes continuous practise and support from others. Gone are the days you could go out practising on your own. So if you have to work for a living and aren't a fully supported rider when you reach school leaving age, you have little chance.

If you and Camberman think having the ability to hop around a bit is a sufficient skill set to work with as preparation for a BTC event, you really have no idea what those riders face. You need natural ability to balance and bags of it. Balance is something you have or don't, you can't learn it.

Well said woody. Why is it that so many from the other side of the pond dont understand what Trials is about and seem to want to turn it into a Circus stunt show?

Just for the american contingent

[for artie]

Well said woody. Why is it that so many from the other side of the pond dont understand what Trials is about and seem to want to turn it into a Circus stunt show?

Just for the american contingent

Please don't judge all American trials riders based on the comments of one. There are many well informed and experienced people in North America able to discuss the sport from all perspectives.

Edited December 4, 2011 by for artie

[old trials fanatic]

Please don't judge all Americans by Sting 32. There are many well informed and experienced people in North America able to discuss the sport from all perspectives.

I am sure there are. If i offended i appologise it's just from this side of the pond it can sometimes appear that it's always got to be bigger, flashier, more razzamataz, more more more. One of the beauties about Trials is it doesnt have to be that way. Introducing all those factors is what has led us to the fiasco that is the WTC. It used to be relevant to the manufacturers and riders right down to club level. It no longer is. People have lost interest and view it as irrelevant which it is to 99.9% of riders who compete week in week out over here. What you guys decide to do at your trials in america is down to what you want from the sport but as has been said before the Scottish Six Days is still regarded by most as the most important event in the calander and that event is now run no stop and is massively oversubscribed. So cant be that far off the mark can it?

So many sports have been americanised, i hope you understand what i mean by that as i dont mean to offend, not always for the better. The sport of trials has tried no stop in fact that was the way it was for over 70 years. Subsequently it has also tried stop and variations of markings of what is a stop and what penalty that should incur. Now one event held over 6 rounds and only here in the UK is going to revert to the tried and tested no stop rule and so far that is all and what an uproar it has caused. Only a handful of people were riding it as it was anyway so what is there to loose? I can assure you the vast majourity of UK riders dont give a monkeys if there is a British contender at WTC and i know of nobody who could name all the competitors probably only knowing of Bou. This is sad really as go back 30 years and most knew the names of the top guys in the world and followed the results even if unable to attend. Will the BTC changing to no stop change this? i doubt it but it may just get more than a handfull of entrants having a go. Got to be worth a try cos it's not worth the effort of putting the events on as it is.

As i said what you guys do over there is up to you and good luck to you i just feel it's time to reappraise what has happened to our sport, which is what one of the governing bodies here in the UK has decided to do, and perhaps get back to what made us take it up in the first place and along the way get even more people to have a go. Bounceing, hopping and pogoing up boulders the size of a house hasnt proven to be achieveing that has it? Neither has the need to have minders which are only "necessary" due to the ridiculous nature of the sections that the current rules have created. If you view it from afar it's a farce.

Nice to hear a voice of reason from over there. Too often our, european, perception of americans is formed from the vocal minority and as in every culture that is not therefore always correct.

Edited December 4, 2011 by Old trials fanatic

[ishy]

I think the NATC have done a good job with the US series, catering more for the majority of riders and not just the top few.

They also didn't just follow what rules the FIM adopted and often waited a year to see how changes worked before making them or not.

The US has a couple of very good riders that could of made the move to Europe and probably showed some respectable rides at world level, but I suspect in reality it wasn't worth it.

Distance is the big killer over here, amount of time it takes to travel to event's does effect entries but the places you can ride and spend camping are second to none.

I can't see the US going full no stop because most clubs run the same set of scoring rules as / NATC and seem happy with them.

[axulsuv]

Thanks woody and otf . I ride my 240 pro in modern events as well as twinshock events. And thanks to Ryan youngs schools I've learned to hop and bop the old girl... not that it does me any good... I still beleive trials is a art form and should not be a extreme sport! And yes i'm old and still get the most fun from cleaning a section with smooth style and grace over the younger guys that MX thru it or spend their whole ride bopping about to line up !

pick a lne and commit to it !!!

rambling again...

Glenn

[copemech]

I don't think much anything in trials has been americanized! As stated, the NATC seems to follow the WTC rules, then the clubs may or may not follow. Any club can do whatever they like on a given day, which is fine if they decide to do something different. Same guys still win, for the most part.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I am old, I cannot hop worth nothing anyway, so hopping is a non issue, the pros who can still apply it at no stop, just move ever so slightly which makes calls difficult as they are very dynamic in their action. Myself, I am like a good dog, and like to leave my mark in every section!

Sometimes I just hesitate after creeping round some full lock turn then looking up at a three foot hill with a two foot log sitting on top! Takes me a moment to suck up the balls! OK, I get a five for the clean ride because I am a dufus!

I feel like little Johnny on his moped! Jesus, Johnny cant you keep rolling? You littlt ****, keep going!

This ain't Scotland, and we don't have flowing burn sections, point and go lad!

Once again, this is where a 5 for stop becomes too harsh. I may be back, but little Johnny on his moped may not. Johnny can find better **** to do on his moped without the grief!

What's the matter Johnny, says dad. Was there anything there your moped could not ride? "No", states Johnny, but the judjes are a lot o' pricks! Gimmie a 5 on everything when my moped farted! Let's go play the mini-golf dad! It is more fun than moped farts!

[steve fracy]

I thought the Americanized reference was way off base, but figured it was not worth the time to reply at that point. Your geographic placement in the world should not have any bearing on whether you know what your talking about or not. There are plenty of folk in non-traditional trials hotbeds who have dedicated most of their lives to the sport and whatever club they belong too!

I also think that the Spanish, and to some degree, the Japanese have had the most to do with the style of riding we see in the WTC today! I dont see Britains top lads coming to America to learn how to trick ride better so they can better their results in the wTC.

We may be accross the pond from you, but we read and watch videos and attend any chance we can to see top level riding. There are a fair few over the years since the 80s now that have come over to ride the SSDT as well, with some pretty respectable results too I might add. (Top Canadian rider ever- Stan Bakgaard- 1984)I would be willing to bet that more riders here, know more about UK trials, than the other way around.

The problems are global, and I am surprised that the FIM does not devote some sort of special committee to try and look into some solid solutions that could be tested in various countries.

Edited December 5, 2011 by Steve Fracy

[old trials fanatic]

I don't think much anything in trials has been americanized! As stated, the NATC seems to follow the WTC rules, then the clubs may or may not follow. Any club can do whatever they like on a given day, which is fine if they decide to do something different. Same guys still win, for the most part.

I have said it before and I will say it again, I am old, I cannot hop worth nothing anyway, so hopping is a non issue, the pros who can still apply it at no stop, just move ever so slightly which makes calls difficult as they are very dynamic in their action. Myself, I am like a good dog, and like to leave my mark in every section!

Sometimes I just hesitate after creeping round some full lock turn then looking up at a three foot hill with a two foot log sitting on top! Takes me a moment to suck up the balls! OK, I get a five for the clean ride because I am a dufus!

I feel like little Johnny on his moped! Jesus, Johnny cant you keep rolling? You littlt ****, keep going!

This ain't Scotland, and we don't have flowing burn sections, point and go lad!

Once again, this is where a 5 for stop becomes too harsh. I may be back, but little Johnny on his moped may not. Johnny can find better **** to do on his moped without the grief!

What's the matter Johnny, says dad. Was there anything there your moped could not ride? "No", states Johnny, but the judjes are a lot o' pricks! Gimmie a 5 on everything when my moped farted! Let's go play the mini-golf dad! It is more fun than moped farts!

"I don't think much anything in trials has been americanized" what i meant was that most of the posts from that side of the pond up to then all seemed to want trials to become flashier, more tricks and stunts, more brash, more in yer face. All things that we over here think of as americanised and i dont get why trials needs all that. It has always been a sport enjoyed by blokes out on their bikes on a Sunday having a laugh and taking the pee out of each other. What's wrong with that? why should it have to become a circus? We had the media circus that was Kickstart and IMHO that was the worst thing to happen to the sport and i'm not the only one over here that now thinks so. Many didnt at the time but the trick cycling nature of the show did have a very big effect on the sport over here.

"This ain't Scotland, and we don't have flowing burn sections, point and go lad" In a country the size of america with all that good ole big country? you are joking aint ya. Are you seriously saying you dont have ANYTHING like that over there? You can not be serious man!!! as one of your countrymen once said.

"Sometimes I just hesitate after creeping round some full lock turn then looking up at a three foot hill with a two foot log sitting on top! Takes me a moment to suck up the balls! OK, I get a five for the clean ride because I am a dufus!" This senario doesnt happen. I always find most observers are too lenient if anything. A momentary lack of forward motion, as in 1 or 2 seconds, is usually ignored it's only when you start faffing about waving your legs in the air and bouncing up and down that they will give you a 5 and thats as it should be.

As i said fair doos everybody is allowed an opionion even about something that will have no effect on them, me included, but lets not get this out of perspective. I repeat it's only 6 trials and will affect only a handfull of riders anyway less than 0.1% of riders in the UK. You guys will do whatever you want over there anyway and thats fine. From my experience most americans are not even sure where the UK is and think we are all English too.

If the dead duck that is the BTC falls flat on it's no stop backside then i am sure all the zebadee's will say i told you so which is also fine but at least the ACU tried to raise the BTC from the dead. They get enough flack for what some people percieve as doing nothing so lets at least give it a go and see how it pans out.

Here's hoping that i have now explained my reference to "americanised" although obviously things get lost in translation sometimes and some, please note i said some, over there do seem to get more than a bit touchy about any reference to their country which they feel is not 110% deferential which for a lot of Europeans does seem a bit weird. No offence meant but i bet somebody will see some

Edited December 5, 2011 by Old trials fanatic

[old trials fanatic]

Thanks woody and otf . I ride my 240 pro in modern events as well as twinshock events. And thanks to Ryan youngs schools I've learned to hop and bop the old girl... not that it does me any good... I still beleive trials is a art form and should not be a extreme sport! And yes i'm old and still get the most fun from cleaning a section with smooth style and grace over the younger guys that MX thru it or spend their whole ride bopping about to line up !

pick a lne and commit to it !!!

rambling again...

Glenn